WEBVTT 00:00:00.506 --> 00:00:06.546 A:middle [ Music ] 00:00:07.046 --> 00:00:07.866 A:middle >> [Background Music] You're listening 00:00:07.896 --> 00:00:11.566 A:middle to the Valley College Connection podcast with John Kawai 00:00:11.566 --> 00:00:14.156 A:middle and Scott Weigand, two Valley professors, 00:00:14.156 --> 00:00:16.476 A:middle engage in a conversation about success 00:00:16.566 --> 00:00:18.196 A:middle with educators and students. 00:00:18.426 --> 00:00:20.966 A:middle Each week they'll sit down with a different guest to find 00:00:20.966 --> 00:00:24.896 A:middle out ways each of us have had to plan, persevere, and overcome 00:00:24.896 --> 00:00:26.106 A:middle to be where we are now. 00:00:26.176 --> 00:00:29.186 A:middle The show will also highlight resources and services 00:00:29.306 --> 00:00:31.036 A:middle that are working to make a difference 00:00:31.036 --> 00:00:32.816 A:middle at Los Angeles Valley College. 00:00:33.056 --> 00:00:35.156 A:middle John and Scott believe that all of us 00:00:35.386 --> 00:00:37.816 A:middle and the college itself are a work in progress. 00:00:38.106 --> 00:00:40.046 A:middle And in this podcast, they'll explore 00:00:40.046 --> 00:00:43.166 A:middle on a more personal level how the community can work together 00:00:43.166 --> 00:00:46.226 A:middle to support each other as we move forward with our goal. 00:00:49.216 --> 00:00:50.946 A:middle >> We're joined today by Michelle Fowles, 00:00:51.026 --> 00:00:52.626 A:middle Dean of Institutional Effectiveness 00:00:52.626 --> 00:00:54.116 A:middle at Los Angeles Valley College. 00:00:54.406 --> 00:00:56.546 A:middle Thank you so much for sitting down with us today, Michelle. 00:00:56.936 --> 00:00:58.526 A:middle >> Thank you for having me. 00:00:59.166 --> 00:01:02.576 A:middle >> We wanted to start off with-- if you could share the story, 00:01:02.576 --> 00:01:04.386 A:middle the path that led you here to Valley College. 00:01:04.386 --> 00:01:07.046 A:middle You can take it as far back as you'd like to. 00:01:09.086 --> 00:01:13.836 A:middle Path, journey steps along the way, what brought you here? 00:01:14.396 --> 00:01:16.476 A:middle >> Well, I came here sort of on accident. 00:01:16.476 --> 00:01:18.406 A:middle It was not planned. 00:01:18.886 --> 00:01:23.066 A:middle And in my current role, I've been in this role for 10 years, 00:01:23.676 --> 00:01:27.396 A:middle and that was actually a choice. 00:01:27.396 --> 00:01:30.566 A:middle And I ended up there because I was actually looking 00:01:30.616 --> 00:01:32.386 A:middle for a full-time faculty job 00:01:32.386 --> 00:01:35.626 A:middle and was quite unsuccessful in doing that. 00:01:36.256 --> 00:01:39.726 A:middle >> Well, why don't you give us a sense of what your job is now? 00:01:39.726 --> 00:01:42.826 A:middle >> So I am the dean of Institutional Effectiveness, 00:01:42.896 --> 00:01:48.926 A:middle which means that I am responsible for all of the data, 00:01:49.526 --> 00:01:53.676 A:middle accountability, reporting, and assistance with planning 00:01:53.816 --> 00:01:55.006 A:middle that goes on, on the campus. 00:01:55.086 --> 00:01:57.066 A:middle The title was previously Research and Planning 00:01:57.066 --> 00:02:00.046 A:middle which I think is clear, but they added several 00:02:00.046 --> 00:02:01.556 A:middle other responsibilities. 00:02:01.556 --> 00:02:05.676 A:middle And there's been a shift with higher Ed in terms 00:02:05.676 --> 00:02:07.196 A:middle of institutional effectiveness. 00:02:07.196 --> 00:02:09.936 A:middle >> Yeah. I think when people start talking about data, 00:02:09.936 --> 00:02:11.786 A:middle they start-- their eyes start to glaze over. 00:02:11.786 --> 00:02:14.936 A:middle The way I look at your job is, basically your job is 00:02:14.936 --> 00:02:17.596 A:middle to find the narrative of where the school is, 00:02:17.596 --> 00:02:18.736 A:middle where the school wants to be. 00:02:19.296 --> 00:02:23.246 A:middle And you're the person where it's not opinion, it's fact. 00:02:23.446 --> 00:02:24.276 A:middle >> That is true. 00:02:24.326 --> 00:02:27.316 A:middle We always try to come back to the fact and try to sort 00:02:27.316 --> 00:02:30.986 A:middle of break through all the noise that's going on, on campus. 00:02:30.986 --> 00:02:35.906 A:middle And so my role in the 10 years here has definitely evolved. 00:02:35.906 --> 00:02:39.666 A:middle In that 10 years, I think we're much more data savvy, 00:02:39.666 --> 00:02:41.596 A:middle we have much better technology. 00:02:41.966 --> 00:02:43.416 A:middle Now it's not necessarily 00:02:43.416 --> 00:02:45.396 A:middle about how much data you can give people. 00:02:45.396 --> 00:02:47.916 A:middle It's about how you give them the data. 00:02:48.506 --> 00:02:50.076 A:middle Now we're much more focused 00:02:50.076 --> 00:02:53.136 A:middle on the data being visual in telling the story. 00:02:53.506 --> 00:02:57.306 A:middle We used to hand people pages of, you know, like Excel files 00:02:57.306 --> 00:03:00.976 A:middle and people would be freaked out by, you know, tables and tables, 00:03:01.536 --> 00:03:04.226 A:middle you know, hundreds of lines of data and now it's 00:03:04.226 --> 00:03:06.496 A:middle about what can they grab in a snapshot, 00:03:07.356 --> 00:03:09.496 A:middle what story does that tell them. 00:03:09.496 --> 00:03:12.406 A:middle And so we are very much focused in our office now 00:03:12.406 --> 00:03:17.916 A:middle on the question and what it is that people want to know 00:03:17.916 --> 00:03:22.696 A:middle or what is the one line or what is the takeaway in terms of, 00:03:22.776 --> 00:03:26.726 A:middle you know, the story that they need to be able 00:03:26.726 --> 00:03:31.336 A:middle to use this data to, you know, make a decision 00:03:31.336 --> 00:03:35.076 A:middle or take action with, so. 00:03:35.466 --> 00:03:38.076 A:middle >> So when you were younger, were you always good at math? 00:03:38.236 --> 00:03:39.906 A:middle >> Absolutely not [laughter]. 00:03:40.836 --> 00:03:44.576 A:middle >> How did you do this stuff? 00:03:44.576 --> 00:03:45.776 A:middle >> It's all by accident. 00:03:45.776 --> 00:03:49.006 A:middle I would not say that math was my favorite thing. 00:03:49.006 --> 00:03:52.746 A:middle Actually, there's a funny or not so funny story with math. 00:03:53.076 --> 00:03:58.356 A:middle So I was taking calculus my senior year and I really did not 00:03:58.356 --> 00:04:03.616 A:middle like my calculus teacher, and he really sort of ticked me off. 00:04:03.696 --> 00:04:07.226 A:middle And so that was my last semester. 00:04:07.226 --> 00:04:10.986 A:middle I didn't even finish calculus in my senior year in high school 00:04:11.196 --> 00:04:13.936 A:middle because I knew I was already going to get into college. 00:04:13.936 --> 00:04:16.096 A:middle And I was like, I don't need this, forget this. 00:04:16.136 --> 00:04:18.466 A:middle I don't need to be stressed out like this. 00:04:18.536 --> 00:04:23.176 A:middle So I think that-- My background is in sociology. 00:04:23.326 --> 00:04:25.806 A:middle So I do have-- I have a bachelor's and a master's 00:04:25.806 --> 00:04:30.256 A:middle in sociology and you have to take stats 00:04:30.256 --> 00:04:31.996 A:middle and do some math along the way. 00:04:32.316 --> 00:04:36.196 A:middle But I feel like much more of my job is about making 00:04:36.196 --> 00:04:38.256 A:middle that translation between the numbers 00:04:38.256 --> 00:04:43.126 A:middle and what the numbers mean less so than like being able 00:04:43.126 --> 00:04:44.816 A:middle to do things like predictive analysis 00:04:44.816 --> 00:04:45.756 A:middle and those sorts of things. 00:04:45.756 --> 00:04:49.236 A:middle It does come into play, but the work that I do 00:04:49.236 --> 00:04:50.806 A:middle on this campus is much more 00:04:50.806 --> 00:04:52.546 A:middle about the meaning behind the numbers. 00:04:52.546 --> 00:04:53.826 A:middle Are there trends? 00:04:54.606 --> 00:04:58.986 A:middle You know, what sort of patterns are we seeing, and that's one 00:04:58.986 --> 00:05:02.316 A:middle of the things that I tried to emphasize when I'm sharing data 00:05:02.316 --> 00:05:05.576 A:middle with faculty and administrators. 00:05:05.576 --> 00:05:07.966 A:middle So I think it's much less about the numbers in the math. 00:05:07.966 --> 00:05:09.826 A:middle You do have to have a number sense. 00:05:09.826 --> 00:05:14.606 A:middle I definitely have that, and I definitely have logic. 00:05:14.606 --> 00:05:17.806 A:middle A lot of what we do in terms of being able 00:05:17.856 --> 00:05:21.886 A:middle to manipulate the data is about the logic behind it 00:05:21.886 --> 00:05:23.616 A:middle and understanding all the moving parts. 00:05:23.676 --> 00:05:26.826 A:middle And so I think that's where the sociology piece comes into play 00:05:27.106 --> 00:05:29.646 A:middle in terms of understanding the relationship and dynamic 00:05:29.696 --> 00:05:31.476 A:middle between different things that are going 00:05:31.476 --> 00:05:34.186 A:middle on in a particular situation, so. 00:05:34.186 --> 00:05:35.606 A:middle >> I find that-- So the strength 00:05:35.606 --> 00:05:38.946 A:middle of when you give a presentation is that you're really good 00:05:38.946 --> 00:05:40.376 A:middle at giving your personal narrative? 00:05:40.616 --> 00:05:40.886 A:middle >> Mm-hmm. 00:05:41.196 --> 00:05:43.766 A:middle >> That you're able to give a metaphor for the numbers. 00:05:44.706 --> 00:05:46.496 A:middle So before we talk about the numbers, 00:05:46.496 --> 00:05:47.776 A:middle you have a metaphor for it. 00:05:47.776 --> 00:05:51.406 A:middle So then when you introduce the numbers, people are comfortable 00:05:51.536 --> 00:05:53.296 A:middle with it, comfortable with where it's going 00:05:53.296 --> 00:05:54.436 A:middle and where you want this to go. 00:05:54.526 --> 00:05:56.426 A:middle I think that's always been a strength. 00:05:56.856 --> 00:05:59.996 A:middle I think the other thing too is this idea of when-- 00:05:59.996 --> 00:06:01.366 A:middle I think when I was first year, we-- 00:06:01.366 --> 00:06:02.896 A:middle like you said, you would have large charts. 00:06:03.326 --> 00:06:05.696 A:middle And I think fewer numbers the better. 00:06:06.056 --> 00:06:06.206 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:06:06.536 --> 00:06:08.186 A:middle >> Right. There's probably only four numbers 00:06:08.186 --> 00:06:09.856 A:middle that someone's going to walk away meaningful. 00:06:10.246 --> 00:06:12.066 A:middle So what are those four numbers that are meaningful? 00:06:13.066 --> 00:06:14.136 A:middle Don't have to be decimals. 00:06:14.656 --> 00:06:15.796 A:middle >> Right, right. 00:06:15.796 --> 00:06:18.036 A:middle Because at some point, it just becomes noise, right? 00:06:18.036 --> 00:06:19.706 A:middle It's just more information. 00:06:19.706 --> 00:06:22.766 A:middle I want people to be able to leave with something 00:06:22.806 --> 00:06:24.646 A:middle so I'm always thinking what's the takeaway? 00:06:24.896 --> 00:06:27.816 A:middle And I think that's where my teaching background actually has 00:06:27.816 --> 00:06:29.486 A:middle come into play. 00:06:29.866 --> 00:06:31.476 A:middle I think it's improved my teaching, 00:06:31.576 --> 00:06:36.556 A:middle I think it's also improved my skills as a researcher 00:06:36.556 --> 00:06:39.366 A:middle as someone who works in, you know, the-- 00:06:39.466 --> 00:06:43.736 A:middle on the campus in terms of being able to share information 00:06:43.736 --> 00:06:44.936 A:middle and cut through the noise. 00:06:44.936 --> 00:06:47.736 A:middle It's like our whole movement with learning outcomes 00:06:47.736 --> 00:06:48.526 A:middle and these sorts of things. 00:06:48.526 --> 00:06:51.536 A:middle It's like what do I want people to know when they leave here? 00:06:51.756 --> 00:06:55.796 A:middle What will that one factor, you know, fact be? 00:06:56.616 --> 00:06:59.116 A:middle So sometimes people ask me information, 00:06:59.116 --> 00:07:00.386 A:middle and I don't necessarily know it 00:07:00.386 --> 00:07:02.856 A:middle because I don't necessarily keep all the precise numbers 00:07:02.856 --> 00:07:03.666 A:middle in my head. 00:07:03.776 --> 00:07:07.056 A:middle Again, I have a number sense, but I know exactly where to go 00:07:07.056 --> 00:07:08.226 A:middle and get the information. 00:07:08.476 --> 00:07:10.806 A:middle But I'm always conscious of that when I'm thinking 00:07:10.806 --> 00:07:13.006 A:middle about what I want people to leave with, 00:07:13.006 --> 00:07:14.886 A:middle is this number getting higher, is it lower, 00:07:14.886 --> 00:07:16.506 A:middle like what's the magnitude of it, 00:07:16.506 --> 00:07:18.956 A:middle so that they can get the big picture 00:07:19.126 --> 00:07:20.426 A:middle when I'm presenting data. 00:07:20.426 --> 00:07:21.356 A:middle >> Well, let me ask this. 00:07:21.796 --> 00:07:23.046 A:middle What are like the big things 00:07:23.046 --> 00:07:24.916 A:middle that in the last five years you think 00:07:24.916 --> 00:07:26.336 A:middle that we've gotten better at? 00:07:29.886 --> 00:07:34.256 A:middle >> Now, you're going to stump me. 00:07:34.506 --> 00:07:38.156 A:middle >> We've definitely got better at communicating data. 00:07:38.156 --> 00:07:38.456 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:07:38.526 --> 00:07:38.946 A:middle >> And just-- 00:07:38.946 --> 00:07:39.256 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:07:39.326 --> 00:07:41.506 A:middle >> And collecting data and raising awareness 00:07:41.506 --> 00:07:43.446 A:middle of the importance of data around campus. 00:07:43.446 --> 00:07:46.626 A:middle >> Yeah, I do think that I no longer hear people say, 00:07:46.876 --> 00:07:49.966 A:middle but this is how I feel, like I think that now-- 00:07:50.086 --> 00:07:52.936 A:middle that narrative now has been like effectively shut 00:07:52.936 --> 00:07:55.186 A:middle down where we don't care what you feel 00:07:55.186 --> 00:07:57.996 A:middle because it's just not a big enough data sample. 00:07:58.116 --> 00:08:02.136 A:middle >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that, you know, we refer to it 00:08:02.136 --> 00:08:04.486 A:middle as anecdata, you know. 00:08:04.836 --> 00:08:09.756 A:middle Anecdata has a population of one, you know, so we really want 00:08:09.756 --> 00:08:11.126 A:middle to be able to expand that out. 00:08:11.126 --> 00:08:12.876 A:middle And I always tell people like if we have data, 00:08:12.876 --> 00:08:15.756 A:middle we need to use it otherwise it is an opinion. 00:08:16.066 --> 00:08:19.486 A:middle And I think that we do enough collection on this campus 00:08:19.486 --> 00:08:22.146 A:middle where we talked to students, we collect qualitative data, 00:08:22.146 --> 00:08:24.576 A:middle we do focus groups, we do have surveys 00:08:24.576 --> 00:08:26.846 A:middle with open ended questions and those sorts of things 00:08:26.846 --> 00:08:29.816 A:middle where we do get the student voice and the faculty voice 00:08:29.816 --> 00:08:31.956 A:middle and the staff voice and we use 00:08:31.956 --> 00:08:34.506 A:middle that in conjunction with the numbers. 00:08:34.506 --> 00:08:37.456 A:middle So it's fine when someone says that in a meeting, 00:08:37.456 --> 00:08:41.236 A:middle but then I'm looking for sources to also validate 00:08:41.356 --> 00:08:43.496 A:middle that perspective, right? 00:08:43.496 --> 00:08:48.516 A:middle But we always want to go back to the facts because we need 00:08:48.516 --> 00:08:50.746 A:middle to be able to plan, hold ourselves accountable, 00:08:50.746 --> 00:08:55.286 A:middle be able to measure how far we've moved once we, you know, 00:08:55.286 --> 00:08:56.956 A:middle are working on a particular project 00:08:56.956 --> 00:08:59.116 A:middle or implementing a particular initiative. 00:08:59.116 --> 00:09:00.616 A:middle So that's why it's important 00:09:00.616 --> 00:09:02.526 A:middle to actually have some of those facts. 00:09:02.526 --> 00:09:04.416 A:middle If we're doing focus groups, we want to come back two 00:09:04.416 --> 00:09:07.146 A:middle or three years later, see if the student voice is the same, 00:09:07.206 --> 00:09:08.906 A:middle see if the faculty voice is the same. 00:09:09.286 --> 00:09:13.056 A:middle That's how you actually take those voices and opinions 00:09:13.306 --> 00:09:14.896 A:middle and make them into data. 00:09:14.896 --> 00:09:18.676 A:middle So I always tell people, that's a valid piece of information 00:09:18.676 --> 00:09:22.606 A:middle but we want to be able to turn that into a source of data. 00:09:23.036 --> 00:09:25.446 A:middle I tell departments this when they are meeting, I say, 00:09:25.446 --> 00:09:26.986 A:middle if you keep agendas and minutes 00:09:26.986 --> 00:09:31.266 A:middle and then we can actually analyze those, then that becomes data. 00:09:31.736 --> 00:09:34.076 A:middle So it's not that I'm negating people's opinions, 00:09:34.076 --> 00:09:35.726 A:middle but we have to be able to document it 00:09:35.726 --> 00:09:36.986 A:middle and turn it into data. 00:09:38.296 --> 00:09:40.056 A:middle >> So, where did you end up going to college 00:09:40.056 --> 00:09:41.646 A:middle at the end of the day? 00:09:41.646 --> 00:09:43.156 A:middle >> I did. I went to Stanford, 00:09:44.546 --> 00:09:48.286 A:middle and that's nothing short of a miracle. 00:09:48.526 --> 00:09:52.176 A:middle Actually, I'm first gen. I'm an immigrant. 00:09:52.656 --> 00:09:58.836 A:middle My parents only had a foreign high school degree, a diploma. 00:09:59.246 --> 00:10:00.976 A:middle >> So where did you go to high school at? 00:10:01.046 --> 00:10:02.676 A:middle >> I went to high school at Granada Hills High School-- 00:10:03.256 --> 00:10:03.736 A:middle >> OK. 00:10:04.136 --> 00:10:05.406 A:middle >> -- which was not my home high school. 00:10:05.466 --> 00:10:05.736 A:middle >> OK. 00:10:05.736 --> 00:10:07.056 A:middle >> So there's a story there, too. 00:10:07.086 --> 00:10:07.986 A:middle >> OK. Yeah, yeah. 00:10:07.986 --> 00:10:08.636 A:middle Let's take it back. 00:10:08.636 --> 00:10:09.226 A:middle >> OK. 00:10:09.226 --> 00:10:11.356 A:middle >> So I'll go back. 00:10:11.456 --> 00:10:17.446 A:middle So I went to Granada on a permit without transportation. 00:10:17.986 --> 00:10:20.386 A:middle Monroe was my homeschool. 00:10:20.796 --> 00:10:22.076 A:middle I lived in Panorama City. 00:10:22.146 --> 00:10:24.666 A:middle For those of you who are familiar with the valley, 00:10:24.746 --> 00:10:30.556 A:middle Panorama City is not necessarily one of the best places 00:10:30.606 --> 00:10:32.616 A:middle to live in the Valley. 00:10:33.666 --> 00:10:37.376 A:middle So I went to Sepulveda Middle School. 00:10:37.376 --> 00:10:39.886 A:middle I was there in the Magnet. 00:10:40.096 --> 00:10:43.116 A:middle I needed to go to high school. 00:10:43.116 --> 00:10:44.606 A:middle There weren't as many magnets. 00:10:44.606 --> 00:10:46.376 A:middle I knew I wasn't going back to the math thing. 00:10:46.376 --> 00:10:47.796 A:middle I knew I wasn't math and science 00:10:47.796 --> 00:10:50.836 A:middle so I didn't necessarily want to go to Magnet. 00:10:50.836 --> 00:10:54.936 A:middle And I did want to get out of the neighborhood. 00:10:54.936 --> 00:10:58.216 A:middle Although when I was Sepulveda, I was in the Magnet, 00:10:58.376 --> 00:11:01.026 A:middle I had to walk home with the neighborhood kids 00:11:01.026 --> 00:11:02.646 A:middle because I lived in the neighborhood. 00:11:02.956 --> 00:11:06.716 A:middle And so I dealt with things like why are you carrying a backpack? 00:11:06.716 --> 00:11:09.916 A:middle Why do you do your homework, you know, all of those sorts 00:11:10.026 --> 00:11:16.436 A:middle of things were typical on my daily adventures home. 00:11:16.476 --> 00:11:17.966 A:middle So I think my friends got it 00:11:17.966 --> 00:11:19.796 A:middle because they understood my parents, 00:11:20.096 --> 00:11:25.756 A:middle and that education was the most important thing in my household. 00:11:26.116 --> 00:11:27.626 A:middle Although we didn't have much, 00:11:27.626 --> 00:11:29.756 A:middle it was all about education and opportunities. 00:11:30.026 --> 00:11:31.566 A:middle >> Where did they emigrate from? 00:11:31.566 --> 00:11:32.726 A:middle >> We came from Jamaica. 00:11:33.116 --> 00:11:33.686 A:middle >> OK. 00:11:33.686 --> 00:11:37.046 A:middle >> So my parents came here to give us a better life 00:11:37.046 --> 00:11:38.896 A:middle and provide us more opportunities. 00:11:38.896 --> 00:11:41.806 A:middle And I think they never dreamed that, you know, 00:11:41.806 --> 00:11:43.866 A:middle we would get where we did. 00:11:43.866 --> 00:11:45.066 A:middle Although it was their ambition, 00:11:45.066 --> 00:11:47.766 A:middle they had no idea where Stanford was. 00:11:47.766 --> 00:11:49.736 A:middle They had no idea how to get us there. 00:11:49.736 --> 00:11:52.276 A:middle They just knew that if we focused and worked hard, 00:11:52.276 --> 00:11:54.036 A:middle we'd be able to do something. 00:11:54.106 --> 00:11:56.376 A:middle And so that was always at the forefront. 00:11:56.376 --> 00:12:04.096 A:middle And when I look back at my life and the places where I was not 00:12:04.216 --> 00:12:07.456 A:middle as privilege, I realized that I had a lot 00:12:07.456 --> 00:12:08.856 A:middle of privilege in other ways. 00:12:08.896 --> 00:12:10.916 A:middle So one of the activities I do 00:12:10.916 --> 00:12:12.416 A:middle with my students is the Privilege Walk. 00:12:12.416 --> 00:12:12.536 A:middle >> Right. 00:12:12.666 --> 00:12:15.316 A:middle >> And you ask these questions, and the people move forward 00:12:15.316 --> 00:12:18.016 A:middle and backward based on where they were in life. 00:12:18.016 --> 00:12:20.516 A:middle And I realized on a few of those questions, I was really blessed. 00:12:21.156 --> 00:12:22.226 A:middle My parents were married. 00:12:22.616 --> 00:12:23.966 A:middle They lived in the same household. 00:12:24.156 --> 00:12:25.506 A:middle I have a strong father figure. 00:12:25.506 --> 00:12:26.616 A:middle He raised two girls. 00:12:26.616 --> 00:12:28.616 A:middle He told us we could be whatever we wanted to be. 00:12:29.206 --> 00:12:31.066 A:middle We had tons of books in our house. 00:12:31.066 --> 00:12:33.016 A:middle We didn't have much, we always had books. 00:12:33.966 --> 00:12:35.656 A:middle You know, there was always a newspaper, 00:12:35.656 --> 00:12:37.076 A:middle my dad read a newspaper. 00:12:37.126 --> 00:12:41.156 A:middle So in that way, we have this, you know, cultural capital that, 00:12:41.976 --> 00:12:43.296 A:middle of course, at that point in time, 00:12:43.296 --> 00:12:45.096 A:middle I did not necessarily realize was 00:12:45.096 --> 00:12:47.096 A:middle as important as it was, right? 00:12:47.096 --> 00:12:47.226 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:12:47.336 --> 00:12:48.946 A:middle >> We always did homework. 00:12:48.946 --> 00:12:50.576 A:middle Our parents always checked on homework. 00:12:50.626 --> 00:12:53.186 A:middle We attended school, attendance was a priority. 00:12:53.186 --> 00:12:54.646 A:middle We went to school every day. 00:12:55.066 --> 00:12:57.726 A:middle It wasn't like, hey, I woke up, I feel sick. 00:12:57.726 --> 00:12:58.666 A:middle I'm going to stay home. 00:12:58.666 --> 00:13:00.896 A:middle Those were not things that were a part 00:13:00.896 --> 00:13:05.796 A:middle of our lifestyle growing up as kids. 00:13:05.796 --> 00:13:08.226 A:middle And so I realized now looking back 00:13:08.226 --> 00:13:10.496 A:middle that those things absolutely made a difference 00:13:10.496 --> 00:13:13.946 A:middle in our trajectory, and in many ways, probably signaled 00:13:13.946 --> 00:13:16.506 A:middle to our teachers, you know, 00:13:16.506 --> 00:13:19.346 A:middle that we were maybe a little bit different, right? 00:13:19.346 --> 00:13:21.826 A:middle We had both parents actively participating, 00:13:22.156 --> 00:13:24.066 A:middle going to parent-teacher conferences. 00:13:24.066 --> 00:13:26.356 A:middle I mean, my parents were working class. 00:13:26.776 --> 00:13:29.536 A:middle You know, they didn't have careers, right? 00:13:29.536 --> 00:13:30.366 A:middle They had jobs. 00:13:30.696 --> 00:13:34.196 A:middle But if there was something that we needed to do for school, 00:13:34.196 --> 00:13:35.316 A:middle then we would be there. 00:13:35.316 --> 00:13:37.656 A:middle We couldn't do like the extra trips and things like that 00:13:37.656 --> 00:13:39.586 A:middle because we couldn't afford it. 00:13:39.586 --> 00:13:41.386 A:middle But we were actively engaged 00:13:41.386 --> 00:13:45.086 A:middle in everything else in terms of school. 00:13:45.526 --> 00:13:46.216 A:middle So-- 00:13:46.406 --> 00:13:49.946 A:middle >> Yeah. When I have students then, we allow students who come 00:13:49.946 --> 00:13:52.656 A:middle from poverty who have this wish dream for their kids and, 00:13:52.656 --> 00:13:54.186 A:middle you know, they always ask what should I do? 00:13:54.186 --> 00:13:57.206 A:middle And I said just be around, like you want to be the parent 00:13:57.206 --> 00:13:58.626 A:middle where the teacher feels like they want 00:13:58.626 --> 00:13:59.586 A:middle to invest in your kids-- 00:13:59.626 --> 00:13:59.886 A:middle >> Right. 00:13:59.886 --> 00:14:00.626 A:middle >> -- because it's uneven. 00:14:01.056 --> 00:14:02.736 A:middle >> Right. No, it's absolutely uneven. 00:14:02.736 --> 00:14:03.566 A:middle And those are the things 00:14:03.566 --> 00:14:07.076 A:middle that I realized my parents didn't have these skills, right? 00:14:07.416 --> 00:14:11.096 A:middle They just knew they wanted better for us. 00:14:11.226 --> 00:14:16.146 A:middle And so I think they taught us to be advocates for ourselves 00:14:16.466 --> 00:14:20.246 A:middle and whenever possible, they would advocate for us. 00:14:20.676 --> 00:14:23.146 A:middle So going back to the question you asked me before 00:14:23.146 --> 00:14:25.666 A:middle about Granada, when I was leaving Sepulveda 00:14:25.666 --> 00:14:28.146 A:middle and had decided not to go to the Magnet, 00:14:28.206 --> 00:14:30.686 A:middle I don't know why Cleveland seems so far away. 00:14:31.006 --> 00:14:33.346 A:middle But Granada was away too, I don't know. 00:14:33.466 --> 00:14:35.246 A:middle The perspective is different, right? 00:14:35.566 --> 00:14:36.056 A:middle >> Right. 00:14:36.466 --> 00:14:39.286 A:middle >> And so I heard Granada was good. 00:14:39.436 --> 00:14:42.166 A:middle My counselor told me Granada had a lot of AP classes. 00:14:42.166 --> 00:14:45.116 A:middle We figured I could get there on a permit 00:14:45.116 --> 00:14:48.366 A:middle because it was not a good time in the Valley, 00:14:48.366 --> 00:14:51.056 A:middle and there were lots of issues and just thought 00:14:51.056 --> 00:14:54.036 A:middle that I could not be as successful at Monroe. 00:14:54.036 --> 00:14:57.086 A:middle And so my dad is the one who went to school and applied, 00:14:57.086 --> 00:15:00.476 A:middle you know, for this permit to get me out of Monroe. 00:15:00.476 --> 00:15:05.936 A:middle And I got into Granada and I took two buses to get to Granada 00:15:05.936 --> 00:15:10.036 A:middle or get home from Granada from Panorama City. 00:15:10.126 --> 00:15:14.356 A:middle And I went to Granada and I was very fortunate to again have, 00:15:14.436 --> 00:15:17.356 A:middle you know, some really good teachers, 00:15:18.016 --> 00:15:19.836 A:middle a really great counselor. 00:15:20.206 --> 00:15:25.356 A:middle And I was able to apply to colleges. 00:15:25.356 --> 00:15:29.576 A:middle Again, I was applying the places that I had no idea but, 00:15:29.846 --> 00:15:31.096 A:middle you know, they said go for it. 00:15:31.096 --> 00:15:32.726 A:middle You're doing well, go for it. 00:15:32.726 --> 00:15:36.916 A:middle And so I did and then I have the stack of like acceptance letters 00:15:36.916 --> 00:15:38.466 A:middle and it's like, OK, now what? 00:15:39.296 --> 00:15:40.696 A:middle You know, now what? 00:15:40.696 --> 00:15:42.326 A:middle And it's not like my parents could help me 00:15:42.326 --> 00:15:43.696 A:middle and say, go here or go there. 00:15:44.126 --> 00:15:48.156 A:middle And, you know, I didn't have any relatives 00:15:48.156 --> 00:15:49.146 A:middle that had gone to college. 00:15:49.146 --> 00:15:50.206 A:middle I didn't have an older cousin. 00:15:50.206 --> 00:15:52.736 A:middle I didn't have anyone so I was just sort of like, OK, 00:15:52.806 --> 00:15:56.626 A:middle I really don't know what I'm doing now. 00:15:56.626 --> 00:16:02.056 A:middle And at the end, I decided that I didn't necessarily want to go 00:16:02.056 --> 00:16:06.666 A:middle that far away from home, but I wanted to be away from home 00:16:06.896 --> 00:16:10.186 A:middle and so that's how I ended up at Stanford. 00:16:10.286 --> 00:16:12.426 A:middle >> And what were you planning to be? 00:16:12.426 --> 00:16:15.606 A:middle Like what was the 18-year-old job that you wish that you have? 00:16:15.706 --> 00:16:18.556 A:middle >> I thought I was going to be a judge. 00:16:18.866 --> 00:16:21.676 A:middle So I thought I was going to become a lawyer 00:16:21.676 --> 00:16:23.676 A:middle and then I was going to become a judge. 00:16:23.826 --> 00:16:26.386 A:middle And so when I went to college, 00:16:26.386 --> 00:16:28.436 A:middle I don't know why I thought this was the route 00:16:28.436 --> 00:16:30.496 A:middle but I thought I was going to double major 00:16:30.496 --> 00:16:33.606 A:middle in Spanish and psychology. 00:16:33.986 --> 00:16:34.096 A:middle >> OK. 00:16:34.096 --> 00:16:35.966 A:middle >> And I don't know who told me 00:16:35.966 --> 00:16:37.656 A:middle that was a great idea either [laughter]. 00:16:37.986 --> 00:16:44.856 A:middle And so, yeah, I got to Stanford and realized, number one, 00:16:44.856 --> 00:16:49.026 A:middle that my quest to become bilingual was probably not going 00:16:49.386 --> 00:16:50.546 A:middle to happen. 00:16:50.546 --> 00:16:52.236 A:middle You know, AP Spanish was one thing 00:16:52.236 --> 00:16:55.806 A:middle and my college Spanish was something completely different. 00:16:55.806 --> 00:16:57.946 A:middle >> Well, college Spanish is Stanford, right? 00:16:57.946 --> 00:16:58.426 A:middle >> Exactly. 00:16:58.426 --> 00:16:58.546 A:middle >> Right. 00:16:58.546 --> 00:17:00.906 A:middle >> And I think that's the hard things, that when you go 00:17:00.906 --> 00:17:02.676 A:middle to a good school, there are no-- 00:17:02.676 --> 00:17:04.456 A:middle everyone is invested in every class, 00:17:04.456 --> 00:17:07.086 A:middle but the people learning Spanish want to become an ambassador. 00:17:07.526 --> 00:17:07.696 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:17:07.806 --> 00:17:08.806 A:middle >> Right? The people want 00:17:08.806 --> 00:17:10.526 A:middle to become psychologist, want to be PhD. 00:17:10.526 --> 00:17:12.146 A:middle So I remember there's just-- 00:17:12.326 --> 00:17:14.466 A:middle there's no like this class is a Mickey Mouse, 00:17:14.526 --> 00:17:16.266 A:middle everyone is completely invested 00:17:16.266 --> 00:17:19.056 A:middle in whatever generalized class you're going to take. 00:17:19.226 --> 00:17:19.566 A:middle >>Right, right. 00:17:19.916 --> 00:17:22.066 A:middle And then I got there and then I realized, 00:17:22.486 --> 00:17:26.356 A:middle like all that privilege that I had being in high school 00:17:26.356 --> 00:17:28.316 A:middle and being at home with my parents and having 00:17:28.316 --> 00:17:30.986 A:middle that support system, when I went to Stanford, 00:17:31.186 --> 00:17:33.356 A:middle I was like, this is all new. 00:17:34.296 --> 00:17:38.316 A:middle I'm living on my own, and I was responsible and good. 00:17:38.316 --> 00:17:40.706 A:middle And I was like-- I was 17 when I went to college, too, 00:17:40.706 --> 00:17:45.466 A:middle so it was like, OK, you know, all these people have their cars 00:17:45.466 --> 00:17:48.356 A:middle and they have older siblings who've been to college 00:17:48.356 --> 00:17:51.236 A:middle or parents and that was the majority of people. 00:17:52.516 --> 00:17:58.316 A:middle So I get there and all I want to do is survive, right, 00:17:58.416 --> 00:18:01.726 A:middle because at this point, it's like that bar got raised, right? 00:18:01.726 --> 00:18:03.556 A:middle Everybody is good. 00:18:03.796 --> 00:18:03.986 A:middle >> Right. 00:18:03.986 --> 00:18:06.656 A:middle >> So what am I going to do now? 00:18:06.656 --> 00:18:10.366 A:middle And yeah, so psychology did not work out for me, 00:18:10.366 --> 00:18:11.956 A:middle but I quickly adjusted. 00:18:12.346 --> 00:18:16.706 A:middle So I was able to evaluate and I fell in love with sociology 00:18:16.706 --> 00:18:21.706 A:middle and did some independent research in different areas. 00:18:21.706 --> 00:18:27.726 A:middle And so, yeah, so sociology sort of-- I gravitated towards that. 00:18:27.906 --> 00:18:29.556 A:middle >> So once you change majors, 00:18:29.556 --> 00:18:32.176 A:middle what were you thinking you're going to do? 00:18:32.806 --> 00:18:34.686 A:middle >> I actually wasn't sure, 00:18:34.686 --> 00:18:38.106 A:middle which I know sounds really funny, but I didn't know. 00:18:38.526 --> 00:18:40.276 A:middle But I did like research. 00:18:40.276 --> 00:18:42.516 A:middle And I think the independent research 00:18:42.516 --> 00:18:45.276 A:middle that I did change my life. 00:18:45.396 --> 00:18:50.356 A:middle So I got an award to do an independent research project 00:18:50.356 --> 00:18:55.626 A:middle and I was able to go to fund my summer trip to Jamaica 00:18:56.336 --> 00:18:58.906 A:middle and collect data, do a bunch of interviews, 00:18:58.906 --> 00:19:03.106 A:middle and I really love that. 00:19:03.666 --> 00:19:07.456 A:middle And so someone said you should go to grad school, you know. 00:19:07.456 --> 00:19:09.186 A:middle And so I was like, oh, I was still sort 00:19:09.186 --> 00:19:10.676 A:middle of thinking I could go to law school, 00:19:10.676 --> 00:19:14.376 A:middle but someone said you should go to grad school. 00:19:14.376 --> 00:19:16.496 A:middle And so I had a couple other opportunities 00:19:16.496 --> 00:19:19.156 A:middle to do some independent research while I was 00:19:19.156 --> 00:19:20.766 A:middle at Stanford, and I did that. 00:19:20.766 --> 00:19:28.506 A:middle And then the summer after my junior year, I was accepted 00:19:28.506 --> 00:19:32.106 A:middle into a program at Princeton 00:19:32.166 --> 00:19:36.726 A:middle where I did a summer research internship there as well. 00:19:37.086 --> 00:19:43.386 A:middle Now, the issue was my GRE scores were not that great. 00:19:43.386 --> 00:19:48.236 A:middle And yeah, so that was a lesson I had not yet learned. 00:19:48.626 --> 00:19:52.976 A:middle Somehow I had made it through with the SAT, but not master's 00:19:52.976 --> 00:19:55.946 A:middle like the test taking part of things. 00:19:55.946 --> 00:19:57.096 A:middle And so someone is like, oh, 00:19:57.096 --> 00:19:58.556 A:middle you have to take this class and do this. 00:19:58.556 --> 00:19:59.426 A:middle And I was like, what? 00:19:59.426 --> 00:20:01.796 A:middle And they're like, oh, these classes cost this much money. 00:20:01.796 --> 00:20:04.426 A:middle I was like, oh yeah, that's why I didn't do it for the SAT. 00:20:04.426 --> 00:20:04.976 A:middle >> Oh, the SAT. 00:20:05.176 --> 00:20:07.646 A:middle >> And I was like, OK, again, 00:20:07.646 --> 00:20:10.466 A:middle that bar was raised and here is a game. 00:20:10.766 --> 00:20:12.556 A:middle But someone just gave me the tools 00:20:12.556 --> 00:20:14.526 A:middle and then told me this is how you do it 00:20:14.526 --> 00:20:16.556 A:middle and this is how you get some money towards it. 00:20:16.556 --> 00:20:17.666 A:middle And I was working. 00:20:17.976 --> 00:20:19.556 A:middle And so I worked and took a class 00:20:19.556 --> 00:20:23.476 A:middle and then my GRE scores shot up, right? 00:20:23.476 --> 00:20:24.766 A:middle So I was able to take that test. 00:20:24.816 --> 00:20:27.396 A:middle And so that's how I got into-- 00:20:27.396 --> 00:20:30.666 A:middle I built relationship with some faculty 00:20:31.036 --> 00:20:33.246 A:middle and that's how I was able to get into grad school. 00:20:33.316 --> 00:20:36.776 A:middle And I think that that was my theme from Stanford 00:20:37.196 --> 00:20:42.426 A:middle into grad school, making those connections with professors, 00:20:42.476 --> 00:20:48.566 A:middle with advisors that actually changed my life. 00:20:48.566 --> 00:20:52.486 A:middle The people who I was able to talk to one-on-one outside 00:20:52.486 --> 00:20:55.256 A:middle of the classroom really helped me navigate, 00:20:55.256 --> 00:20:56.446 A:middle it's where I got jobs. 00:20:56.886 --> 00:20:59.846 A:middle I worked for different deans. 00:20:59.846 --> 00:21:03.816 A:middle I worked always in offices, you know, and helping students. 00:21:03.816 --> 00:21:09.246 A:middle And so I think that when I ended up coming to, you know, 00:21:09.366 --> 00:21:11.146 A:middle coming to look for a job, 00:21:11.666 --> 00:21:15.326 A:middle I had a lot of experience in a campus setting. 00:21:15.326 --> 00:21:19.856 A:middle And so that was familiar to me and I think I was able 00:21:19.856 --> 00:21:22.696 A:middle to utilize those skills, both on the academic side 00:21:22.696 --> 00:21:27.216 A:middle and the experiences that I had to be able to, you know, 00:21:27.306 --> 00:21:29.156 A:middle look for employment, so. 00:21:29.356 --> 00:21:31.876 A:middle >> What characteristic in you do you think made you 00:21:31.876 --> 00:21:32.706 A:middle so mentorable? 00:21:32.936 --> 00:21:35.226 A:middle Because it seems like there's a history of people who sort 00:21:35.226 --> 00:21:37.176 A:middle of looked after you and I think that-- 00:21:37.176 --> 00:21:39.336 A:middle I think there's a skill there, you know, that you-- 00:21:39.706 --> 00:21:41.316 A:middle of how people present themselves 00:21:41.316 --> 00:21:42.706 A:middle that make people want to invest in them. 00:21:42.706 --> 00:21:45.566 A:middle Like what do you think it was about you that so many people, 00:21:45.996 --> 00:21:47.496 A:middle you know, saw so much potential in? 00:21:47.606 --> 00:21:52.096 A:middle >> You know, I think it just goes back to the work ethic. 00:21:52.136 --> 00:21:55.816 A:middle You know, I don't recall my parents calling 00:21:55.816 --> 00:21:56.786 A:middle out sick from work. 00:21:57.346 --> 00:22:01.426 A:middle They didn't let us call out, you know, not go to school 00:22:01.426 --> 00:22:02.306 A:middle and that sort of thing. 00:22:02.306 --> 00:22:04.486 A:middle And they always instilled in us the work ethic. 00:22:04.486 --> 00:22:07.716 A:middle And so they always said, if you work hard, you will be rewarded. 00:22:07.716 --> 00:22:10.236 A:middle You might not get the reward that you think you deserve, 00:22:10.676 --> 00:22:14.136 A:middle but eventually you will be able to, you know, move forward. 00:22:14.136 --> 00:22:18.486 A:middle I saw my dad work really, really hard and not get what I think, 00:22:18.566 --> 00:22:19.876 A:middle you know, he deserved. 00:22:19.876 --> 00:22:23.716 A:middle And so I think I was like I have to do this for them 00:22:23.716 --> 00:22:25.716 A:middle and I think that people saw that. 00:22:25.716 --> 00:22:30.516 A:middle And with me, I think there wasn't a choice, right? 00:22:30.576 --> 00:22:34.446 A:middle So when I went to college, it was, you're going to college 00:22:34.446 --> 00:22:36.096 A:middle or you're going back to Panorama City? 00:22:36.646 --> 00:22:38.366 A:middle I saw what Panorama City did. 00:22:38.366 --> 00:22:42.326 A:middle I have friends who died, people who got pregnant and never got 00:22:42.326 --> 00:22:44.426 A:middle out of, you know, high school. 00:22:44.426 --> 00:22:46.736 A:middle And so I came home the first summer 00:22:46.736 --> 00:22:48.056 A:middle and after that, that was it. 00:22:48.056 --> 00:22:51.016 A:middle I was like, I'm not going back because I might not be able 00:22:51.016 --> 00:22:53.946 A:middle to come back to Stanford. 00:22:54.076 --> 00:22:59.736 A:middle And so I think my dad always instilled in us the-- 00:23:01.476 --> 00:23:06.146 A:middle that advocacy, you know, and he always said to have a voice. 00:23:06.676 --> 00:23:10.566 A:middle And so I don't know if he knew what he was teaching us to do 00:23:10.796 --> 00:23:12.916 A:middle at that point, but he only had two girls, right? 00:23:12.916 --> 00:23:16.116 A:middle And so he was just like, this is how I know how to be, 00:23:16.116 --> 00:23:19.096 A:middle have your voice no matter who it's with, whether it's 00:23:19.096 --> 00:23:21.766 A:middle in relationship to men or whether it's in relationship 00:23:21.766 --> 00:23:24.026 A:middle to whoever else has that power. 00:23:24.026 --> 00:23:25.546 A:middle Always have your voice. 00:23:25.946 --> 00:23:29.556 A:middle And so I think that we were able to articulate things in ways 00:23:29.556 --> 00:23:31.826 A:middle that maybe other people had not been taught 00:23:32.306 --> 00:23:35.426 A:middle to or were afraid to do. 00:23:35.836 --> 00:23:39.566 A:middle And, you know, the person I am now, I was telling student this, 00:23:39.726 --> 00:23:42.386 A:middle is not the person that I was even when I was in high school. 00:23:42.386 --> 00:23:45.086 A:middle I don't necessarily know that I had my voice in that way. 00:23:45.086 --> 00:23:48.736 A:middle I wasn't like, you know, head of some spirit club 00:23:48.736 --> 00:23:49.636 A:middle or something like that. 00:23:49.636 --> 00:23:52.436 A:middle I was, you know, a meek little nerd, but I knew I was good 00:23:52.436 --> 00:23:54.996 A:middle at that, like, you know. 00:23:55.056 --> 00:23:57.726 A:middle So that's where I had my voice. 00:23:57.726 --> 00:23:59.786 A:middle Like I quit my high school track team 00:23:59.786 --> 00:24:03.206 A:middle because my coach was telling me I couldn't go take the test 00:24:03.206 --> 00:24:04.486 A:middle to get into an AP class. 00:24:05.456 --> 00:24:09.006 A:middle And I was like, that's not going to happen, you know. 00:24:09.006 --> 00:24:10.806 A:middle I was like, you can have your uniform. 00:24:10.856 --> 00:24:14.196 A:middle And so I didn't run track, again, my senior year. 00:24:14.196 --> 00:24:16.026 A:middle These are just choices that I made, 00:24:16.216 --> 00:24:19.656 A:middle where probably maybe I should have stayed with track. 00:24:19.656 --> 00:24:21.476 A:middle And I thought that would have been a way for me 00:24:21.476 --> 00:24:23.856 A:middle to get a scholarship to go to college but I knew 00:24:23.856 --> 00:24:26.796 A:middle that my focus was on the academics, you know. 00:24:26.796 --> 00:24:28.476 A:middle And my dad always said, like, 00:24:28.476 --> 00:24:30.116 A:middle they can't take that away from you. 00:24:30.116 --> 00:24:34.496 A:middle They can't take away what's in your head, and never pretend 00:24:34.496 --> 00:24:35.946 A:middle that you don't have it. 00:24:36.026 --> 00:24:38.026 A:middle And so that was really important to me. 00:24:38.026 --> 00:24:41.706 A:middle And so I think some of those things were probably not-- 00:24:41.916 --> 00:24:44.136 A:middle I don't know, if they were the best choices, 00:24:44.136 --> 00:24:46.426 A:middle but somehow I felt empowered to be able to do that 00:24:46.426 --> 00:24:48.526 A:middle and things would be OK. 00:24:48.796 --> 00:24:51.956 A:middle >> Well, I think there's always been a strength in you 00:24:51.956 --> 00:24:54.686 A:middle within this campus, is that we have a lot of Groupthink here. 00:24:55.056 --> 00:24:55.196 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:24:55.586 --> 00:24:58.096 A:middle >> Right? Where people-- I mean, 00:24:58.456 --> 00:25:00.096 A:middle it's hard to get fired from this job. 00:25:00.096 --> 00:25:00.596 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:25:00.846 --> 00:25:02.786 A:middle >> And that if you have an argument with something 00:25:02.786 --> 00:25:03.996 A:middle with someone, then guess what? 00:25:04.176 --> 00:25:07.116 A:middle That person is going to be here another 20 years, right? 00:25:07.646 --> 00:25:10.886 A:middle And I think the strength of sort of the change that you brought 00:25:10.886 --> 00:25:13.396 A:middle around here is that you've never been a part of Groupthink. 00:25:14.206 --> 00:25:16.296 A:middle You've never been, you know, you've never sort of said, 00:25:16.536 --> 00:25:18.826 A:middle I ascribed to what makes everyone comfortable. 00:25:18.966 --> 00:25:19.056 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:25:19.306 --> 00:25:22.906 A:middle >> Right? And I think that's always been just a necessary 00:25:22.906 --> 00:25:28.226 A:middle part of the improvement that we've had. 00:25:28.226 --> 00:25:29.646 A:middle >> Yeah. Yeah, I think 00:25:29.646 --> 00:25:33.686 A:middle that independent thought is really important, you know. 00:25:34.126 --> 00:25:37.836 A:middle Growing up, I don't think I was a person 00:25:37.836 --> 00:25:38.836 A:middle who had a lot of friends. 00:25:38.836 --> 00:25:41.006 A:middle You know, I had a core group of friends 00:25:41.406 --> 00:25:46.596 A:middle and so I did not necessarily feel the need to fit in. 00:25:46.696 --> 00:25:48.016 A:middle I didn't fit in any way. 00:25:48.016 --> 00:25:50.536 A:middle Even with like the neighborhood kids, I didn't fit 00:25:50.536 --> 00:25:51.706 A:middle in because I was the nerd. 00:25:51.886 --> 00:25:53.876 A:middle And with the nerds, I didn't necessarily fit 00:25:53.876 --> 00:25:56.866 A:middle in because I wasn't necessarily like them in terms of the, 00:25:57.236 --> 00:25:59.516 A:middle you know, the social class and the activities 00:25:59.516 --> 00:26:00.966 A:middle and the things that they got to do. 00:26:00.966 --> 00:26:04.966 A:middle So I think I got used to that, but being able to like voice 00:26:04.966 --> 00:26:07.086 A:middle that opinion anyway and in-- 00:26:07.086 --> 00:26:09.496 A:middle with the neighborhood kids say these other kids are OK, 00:26:09.806 --> 00:26:13.646 A:middle you know, and with the with the nerd say these other kids are OK 00:26:13.646 --> 00:26:14.816 A:middle too, you know, because I had 00:26:14.816 --> 00:26:19.596 A:middle to navigate those two worlds almost on a daily basis. 00:26:19.596 --> 00:26:20.816 A:middle And so I think that's a skill 00:26:20.816 --> 00:26:24.476 A:middle that has helped me in my adult life. 00:26:24.636 --> 00:26:26.976 A:middle And I think also, you know, by the nature of the work 00:26:26.976 --> 00:26:30.806 A:middle that I do, if you go back to the facts, you can sort of cut 00:26:30.806 --> 00:26:34.726 A:middle through a lot of, you know, the positioning 00:26:34.726 --> 00:26:36.556 A:middle and posturing that takes place. 00:26:36.946 --> 00:26:42.146 A:middle I definitely want to, you know, be fair and hear both sides 00:26:42.146 --> 00:26:45.116 A:middle and be able to sit down and have conversations with people. 00:26:45.416 --> 00:26:48.576 A:middle And we might not necessarily agree, but I want to be able 00:26:48.576 --> 00:26:51.716 A:middle to be respectful and be able to see the value 00:26:51.716 --> 00:26:53.086 A:middle in other people's opinions, 00:26:53.086 --> 00:26:54.496 A:middle because I think that that helps me. 00:26:54.776 --> 00:26:55.976 A:middle >> Yeah, I mean, it sounds like there's-- 00:26:56.596 --> 00:27:00.016 A:middle you've had a lot of little stakes practice repetition, 00:27:00.096 --> 00:27:02.916 A:middle right, because I think it's one thing to be disagreeable 00:27:03.296 --> 00:27:04.926 A:middle because I'm a pretty disagreeable, right? 00:27:04.926 --> 00:27:05.556 A:middle >> Yeah, yeah. 00:27:05.556 --> 00:27:07.606 A:middle >> I mean, because it's one of those sort 00:27:07.606 --> 00:27:09.356 A:middle of factors in psychology, right? 00:27:09.356 --> 00:27:14.196 A:middle Some people put a high value on people agreeing with them 00:27:14.196 --> 00:27:15.276 A:middle and other people don't. 00:27:15.276 --> 00:27:16.756 A:middle I'm one of those people, so you're one 00:27:16.756 --> 00:27:17.666 A:middle of those people also, right? 00:27:18.126 --> 00:27:21.376 A:middle And we have other people like that on campus that aren't 00:27:21.376 --> 00:27:24.856 A:middle as successful mostly because it's not enough 00:27:24.856 --> 00:27:25.746 A:middle to be disagreeable. 00:27:25.986 --> 00:27:27.756 A:middle You have to be disagreeable in a way we're 00:27:27.756 --> 00:27:30.956 A:middle after our discussion and after our debate. 00:27:32.266 --> 00:27:33.256 A:middle We can work together. 00:27:33.596 --> 00:27:33.856 A:middle >> Right. 00:27:34.136 --> 00:27:36.906 A:middle >> Right. And I think that's sort of a skill that all 00:27:36.906 --> 00:27:38.686 A:middle that little stakes repetition. 00:27:39.076 --> 00:27:39.296 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:27:39.546 --> 00:27:39.726 A:middle >> Right. 00:27:40.496 --> 00:27:40.876 A:middle >> Yeah. And I-- 00:27:40.876 --> 00:27:43.346 A:middle >> I think part of it too is being disagreeable, 00:27:43.346 --> 00:27:44.936 A:middle not just for the sake of being disagreeable, 00:27:45.446 --> 00:27:48.246 A:middle it's being disagreeable with a real cause behind it. 00:27:48.356 --> 00:27:48.586 A:middle >> Right. 00:27:48.586 --> 00:27:50.556 A:middle >> And being able to have the courage to put yourself 00:27:50.556 --> 00:27:52.556 A:middle out there to say, here's what I believe and then here's why. 00:27:52.876 --> 00:27:53.106 A:middle >> Right. 00:27:53.106 --> 00:27:55.686 A:middle >> And both of you do a strong job of that. 00:27:55.936 --> 00:27:56.106 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:27:56.506 --> 00:27:58.036 A:middle >> So where did you end up going in grad school? 00:27:58.586 --> 00:28:00.236 A:middle >> I went to Princeton. 00:28:00.466 --> 00:28:02.716 A:middle >> OK. Now, let me ask one question before we go there. 00:28:02.716 --> 00:28:02.806 A:middle >> OK. 00:28:02.806 --> 00:28:05.566 A:middle >> Because you'd mentioned that it was your independent study 00:28:05.566 --> 00:28:07.596 A:middle when you're at Stanford that took you to Jamaica 00:28:07.596 --> 00:28:08.686 A:middle that you said changed your life? 00:28:09.016 --> 00:28:12.456 A:middle Was it the nature of the work of doing research that sort 00:28:12.456 --> 00:28:14.886 A:middle of changed your life or was the particular study 00:28:14.886 --> 00:28:15.816 A:middle that you were doing, or-- 00:28:16.076 --> 00:28:17.736 A:middle >> You know, it was twofold. 00:28:17.866 --> 00:28:22.126 A:middle So I think there was a little bit of self-discovery 00:28:22.636 --> 00:28:24.776 A:middle that went on in this project. 00:28:24.776 --> 00:28:31.046 A:middle So the first project had to do with I interviewed a bunch 00:28:31.506 --> 00:28:38.666 A:middle of kids that were around the age of 11 or 12 in Jamaica, 00:28:38.666 --> 00:28:41.226 A:middle and basically was asking these questions like, what do you want 00:28:41.226 --> 00:28:43.016 A:middle to be when you grow up and what will you do? 00:28:43.016 --> 00:28:44.416 A:middle And so what I realized is 00:28:44.416 --> 00:28:46.886 A:middle because the schooling system there is based 00:28:46.886 --> 00:28:51.326 A:middle on the British system, by the time these kids are around, 00:28:51.326 --> 00:28:53.766 A:middle you know, sixth grade or so, they pretty much know 00:28:53.766 --> 00:28:55.816 A:middle which path they're going to be on, right? 00:28:56.086 --> 00:28:59.096 A:middle Are you going to go on to like a college prep 00:28:59.096 --> 00:29:02.666 A:middle or are you going to-- go into something that is vocational? 00:29:03.166 --> 00:29:08.136 A:middle And I found that to be, you know, very profound in some ways 00:29:08.136 --> 00:29:10.426 A:middle because I now live in America. 00:29:11.016 --> 00:29:12.736 A:middle It's the land of opportunity. 00:29:12.736 --> 00:29:15.086 A:middle Even when you're 30, you can decide that you want 00:29:15.086 --> 00:29:18.556 A:middle to do something else and still have that opportunity. 00:29:18.556 --> 00:29:20.946 A:middle Whereas for these kids, it was very much 00:29:20.946 --> 00:29:22.066 A:middle like you need to know now. 00:29:22.306 --> 00:29:25.946 A:middle And if you haven't been doing the work for that college prep, 00:29:25.946 --> 00:29:27.716 A:middle that's no longer an option for you. 00:29:27.856 --> 00:29:30.266 A:middle So it really sort of solidified all of the stuff 00:29:30.296 --> 00:29:32.706 A:middle that my parents had, I think, ingrained in us 00:29:32.706 --> 00:29:37.156 A:middle without telling us this, that really sort of-- 00:29:37.376 --> 00:29:40.046 A:middle it became clear for me in that project. 00:29:40.476 --> 00:29:43.496 A:middle But I love talking to people, hearing their stories, 00:29:43.496 --> 00:29:45.556 A:middle putting all that information together. 00:29:45.976 --> 00:29:48.856 A:middle I did love doing the research. 00:29:48.856 --> 00:29:49.076 A:middle >> OK. 00:29:49.076 --> 00:29:53.106 A:middle >> And so-- And I think through that and working one-on-one 00:29:53.106 --> 00:29:57.786 A:middle with a faculty member to go through that research, 00:29:57.786 --> 00:30:01.976 A:middle it also helped me sort of find a passion, right? 00:30:02.046 --> 00:30:02.216 A:middle >> Right. 00:30:02.216 --> 00:30:04.396 A:middle >> Like, oh wait, people can do this for a living? 00:30:04.396 --> 00:30:05.446 A:middle >> Right, right. 00:30:05.446 --> 00:30:06.946 A:middle >> You know, you can do this? 00:30:06.946 --> 00:30:07.576 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:30:07.606 --> 00:30:11.466 A:middle >> And so I had an opportunity too to work on a project 00:30:11.466 --> 00:30:14.416 A:middle on Marcus Garvey through the King Papers Project, 00:30:14.416 --> 00:30:18.816 A:middle which I think was great for me as well in terms of being able 00:30:18.816 --> 00:30:21.456 A:middle to do some analysis of my own culture. 00:30:21.456 --> 00:30:26.266 A:middle I did some independent study also on the Maroons in Jamaica, 00:30:26.266 --> 00:30:28.276 A:middle which are sort of the original peoples 00:30:28.276 --> 00:30:31.526 A:middle that retreated into the mountains. 00:30:31.526 --> 00:30:34.576 A:middle And then I had my cousins all go on this excursion with me 00:30:34.736 --> 00:30:36.866 A:middle up to the top of the mountain where no one 00:30:36.866 --> 00:30:38.566 A:middle in my family had ever been. 00:30:38.766 --> 00:30:39.546 A:middle >> Wow. 00:30:39.546 --> 00:30:41.236 A:middle >> And they were like, oh, here's Michelle. 00:30:41.236 --> 00:30:43.236 A:middle She went to college and now she's got all these 00:30:43.236 --> 00:30:44.696 A:middle bright ideas. 00:30:44.696 --> 00:30:49.456 A:middle And so I think I was able to utilize these experiences 00:30:49.456 --> 00:30:52.076 A:middle to sort of navigate a lot of my own-- 00:30:52.076 --> 00:30:56.286 A:middle like personal identity and make these connections 00:30:56.286 --> 00:30:58.076 A:middle that I did not necessarily have. 00:30:58.076 --> 00:31:01.796 A:middle I have them loosely but not like in this very concrete way. 00:31:02.226 --> 00:31:04.126 A:middle So I remember my grandmother, 00:31:04.186 --> 00:31:07.196 A:middle like just having this complete disconnect with all of this, 00:31:07.236 --> 00:31:10.756 A:middle because they saw those people as like the original people, right, 00:31:10.756 --> 00:31:13.286 A:middle the closest tied to Africa on the island, 00:31:13.286 --> 00:31:17.496 A:middle but they're really sort of in their own land, right? 00:31:17.496 --> 00:31:20.226 A:middle They have their own sort of territory and so there-- 00:31:20.226 --> 00:31:21.756 A:middle they have their own government and all 00:31:21.756 --> 00:31:22.806 A:middle of these sorts of things. 00:31:22.806 --> 00:31:28.086 A:middle And this was completely foreign to my family in terms of, 00:31:28.086 --> 00:31:30.676 A:middle you know, why we would go up there, why we would want 00:31:30.676 --> 00:31:33.206 A:middle to know this, why we would want to talk to these people 00:31:33.206 --> 00:31:35.206 A:middle and interview these people and know our history? 00:31:35.206 --> 00:31:38.266 A:middle And for me, I was thinking, these people are dying off 00:31:38.266 --> 00:31:40.436 A:middle and they're all leaving and intermarrying. 00:31:40.436 --> 00:31:42.826 A:middle And this is very important in terms of the transmission 00:31:42.826 --> 00:31:45.706 A:middle of culture, and they were like, OK, she's off on one of her, 00:31:46.096 --> 00:31:49.656 A:middle you know, crazy, you know, adventures again. 00:31:49.656 --> 00:31:52.006 A:middle So I think things like that are really-- 00:31:53.126 --> 00:31:57.666 A:middle were fascinating in terms of shaping me both personally 00:31:57.666 --> 00:32:00.086 A:middle as well as academically, so. 00:32:00.086 --> 00:32:01.956 A:middle >> Wow. That sounds like an amazing experience. 00:32:02.066 --> 00:32:02.436 A:middle >> Yeah, yeah. 00:32:02.676 --> 00:32:04.426 A:middle >> So you have these independent studies. 00:32:04.426 --> 00:32:07.546 A:middle You talk to us a little bit about the GRE and then preparing 00:32:07.546 --> 00:32:09.996 A:middle for that and then you said you landed at Princeton. 00:32:10.606 --> 00:32:11.826 A:middle >> I landed at Princeton. 00:32:11.826 --> 00:32:13.676 A:middle I had done that summer program. 00:32:13.676 --> 00:32:18.156 A:middle And there was a professor there that I was very interested 00:32:18.266 --> 00:32:21.176 A:middle in working with, but also who had taken me, you know, 00:32:21.466 --> 00:32:25.326 A:middle under her wing in many ways, and who knew this was the way 00:32:25.326 --> 00:32:26.236 A:middle to get into grad school. 00:32:27.646 --> 00:32:32.636 A:middle And so-- And even leaving Stanford, I didn't think 00:32:32.636 --> 00:32:35.826 A:middle that going to Princeton was a possibility. 00:32:35.886 --> 00:32:40.386 A:middle It just really seems so foreign to me in terms of going 00:32:40.386 --> 00:32:43.486 A:middle into a PhD program and going 00:32:43.486 --> 00:32:46.006 A:middle into a PhD program right out of undergrad. 00:32:46.446 --> 00:32:48.566 A:middle You know, as a first generation college student, 00:32:48.566 --> 00:32:50.016 A:middle no one in my family has these. 00:32:50.016 --> 00:32:52.326 A:middle I have no idea what I'm doing, right? 00:32:52.326 --> 00:32:53.996 A:middle I'm just doing what they tell me to do. 00:32:53.996 --> 00:32:56.456 A:middle I've been working with the dean, working with the faculty. 00:32:56.866 --> 00:32:58.956 A:middle I have these pretty good relationships. 00:32:59.396 --> 00:33:02.896 A:middle And everything they've asked me to do, I've been able to do. 00:33:03.056 --> 00:33:07.066 A:middle And so I make the decision that I'm going to go to Princeton 00:33:07.066 --> 00:33:10.176 A:middle because I'm going to go and get that East Coast experience 00:33:10.176 --> 00:33:15.206 A:middle so I will be well rounded academically when I come back. 00:33:15.206 --> 00:33:21.196 A:middle So I go to Princeton and I get the shock of my life. 00:33:22.006 --> 00:33:25.786 A:middle And my first year there was just-- it was awful. 00:33:26.466 --> 00:33:28.246 A:middle It was just-- It was terrible. 00:33:28.616 --> 00:33:32.386 A:middle So I get there, and it's totally not what I think it's going 00:33:32.386 --> 00:33:32.686 A:middle to be. 00:33:33.246 --> 00:33:36.866 A:middle I get there and I am in a cohort of four. 00:33:37.686 --> 00:33:38.076 A:middle >> Wow. 00:33:39.446 --> 00:33:44.656 A:middle >> Just imagine that, four, and it's me, 21-year-old me, 00:33:45.636 --> 00:33:47.936 A:middle black female, straight out of undergrad, 00:33:48.796 --> 00:33:52.406 A:middle and three married white men with master's. 00:33:52.896 --> 00:33:53.256 A:middle >> Wow. 00:33:55.596 --> 00:33:59.716 A:middle >> And I'm thinking this is going to be rough. 00:34:01.026 --> 00:34:04.196 A:middle So, all that confidence that I had when I got to grad school, 00:34:04.246 --> 00:34:05.596 A:middle it really-- it shook me. 00:34:06.106 --> 00:34:09.066 A:middle It really shook me, but I hung in. 00:34:09.326 --> 00:34:13.406 A:middle I, you know, did what I needed to do and I got 00:34:13.406 --> 00:34:14.856 A:middle through that first year. 00:34:14.856 --> 00:34:16.656 A:middle It was challenging in many ways. 00:34:16.746 --> 00:34:19.026 A:middle I mean, the winter was so long [laughter]. 00:34:19.256 --> 00:34:21.126 A:middle It was really long. 00:34:21.126 --> 00:34:22.496 A:middle I think I came home for like four 00:34:22.496 --> 00:34:24.316 A:middle or five weeks that first winter. 00:34:24.386 --> 00:34:27.256 A:middle But I did everything that I needed to do. 00:34:27.256 --> 00:34:28.936 A:middle I pass my classes, I did everything. 00:34:28.936 --> 00:34:31.906 A:middle And at the end of that year, I was thinking, I don't know 00:34:31.906 --> 00:34:33.346 A:middle if this is really for me. 00:34:33.826 --> 00:34:36.876 A:middle I felt OK but I didn't feel great. 00:34:37.556 --> 00:34:43.986 A:middle And so that summer, I did come home and I was just sort 00:34:43.986 --> 00:34:45.996 A:middle of thinking through things. 00:34:45.996 --> 00:34:48.086 A:middle And, you know, I finished what I start, 00:34:48.086 --> 00:34:49.556 A:middle so I'm like, OK, I'll go back. 00:34:49.556 --> 00:34:52.516 A:middle And then I got a call from Stanford 00:34:53.116 --> 00:34:55.586 A:middle because someone had left a position and they wanted me 00:34:55.586 --> 00:34:57.346 A:middle to come work in the dean of students 00:34:57.346 --> 00:34:59.336 A:middle in their Black Community Services Center, 00:34:59.936 --> 00:35:01.776 A:middle four-year term employment. 00:35:01.836 --> 00:35:03.046 A:middle I was like I'm there [laughter]. 00:35:03.406 --> 00:35:08.956 A:middle And so, now I had to go tell my parents I'm going to stop 00:35:08.956 --> 00:35:13.466 A:middle out of grad school for a year and go through this job. 00:35:13.586 --> 00:35:16.896 A:middle They didn't argue with me, but they were like, OK, 00:35:16.896 --> 00:35:20.476 A:middle what's going on, you know, but it was perfect for me 00:35:21.336 --> 00:35:24.306 A:middle because I needed a break, I needed to reboot. 00:35:24.606 --> 00:35:26.376 A:middle And so I went back to Stanford 00:35:26.376 --> 00:35:28.236 A:middle in a different capacity and worked. 00:35:28.446 --> 00:35:32.986 A:middle Loved my job, work with undergrads and worked 00:35:32.986 --> 00:35:39.196 A:middle on Black Recruitment Orientation services, support services 00:35:40.016 --> 00:35:43.346 A:middle on the campus, and really had, you know, 00:35:43.716 --> 00:35:45.716 A:middle a great experience doing that. 00:35:45.716 --> 00:35:48.516 A:middle And in that year, I was able to connect with, you know, 00:35:48.516 --> 00:35:51.276 A:middle some of the old people that I knew on campus, really refocus, 00:35:51.276 --> 00:35:55.016 A:middle say, yes, I want to do this PhD. 00:35:55.016 --> 00:35:58.256 A:middle I don't want to, you know, step out and go get an EDD 00:35:58.256 --> 00:36:00.106 A:middle or do something else or, you know, 00:36:00.246 --> 00:36:01.826 A:middle change my trajectory at this point. 00:36:01.826 --> 00:36:04.756 A:middle And so then I went back to Princeton 00:36:04.756 --> 00:36:11.366 A:middle and completed three more years, did my finished up, 00:36:12.266 --> 00:36:19.766 A:middle did my comp exams, all the requirements, everything, 00:36:20.316 --> 00:36:27.476 A:middle got to the ABD point, and my mom was diagnosed with cancer. 00:36:28.606 --> 00:36:33.496 A:middle So then I got that call and I thought, well, 00:36:33.576 --> 00:36:36.626 A:middle I've gotten over this big hurdle. 00:36:37.476 --> 00:36:39.656 A:middle What am I going to do? 00:36:39.656 --> 00:36:44.596 A:middle And I made the decision because of the situation with my dad 00:36:44.596 --> 00:36:46.946 A:middle and my sister that it was going to be best for me to come home 00:36:47.066 --> 00:36:50.316 A:middle and help take care of my mom and support her in that. 00:36:50.316 --> 00:36:54.546 A:middle And so I left my program at Princeton and came to California 00:36:55.106 --> 00:36:57.636 A:middle and help take care of my mom 00:36:57.636 --> 00:37:00.056 A:middle and through her cycles and those battles. 00:37:00.056 --> 00:37:03.926 A:middle And decide to stay in California, 00:37:04.226 --> 00:37:09.956 A:middle which means I did not-- I was never able or I should say, 00:37:10.226 --> 00:37:15.506 A:middle I have not been able to up until this point finish the PhD. 00:37:15.636 --> 00:37:18.256 A:middle >> Were they-- Were you able to pay some money and turn it 00:37:18.256 --> 00:37:19.746 A:middle into a master's or-- yeah. 00:37:20.096 --> 00:37:21.456 A:middle >> I-- So I have my master's. 00:37:22.086 --> 00:37:22.726 A:middle >> OK. 00:37:22.726 --> 00:37:26.716 A:middle >> And it's interesting because people have been pushing me 00:37:26.716 --> 00:37:30.856 A:middle to go back and finish and do the PhD and so it's been 00:37:30.856 --> 00:37:32.086 A:middle on my list for a long time. 00:37:32.086 --> 00:37:33.986 A:middle So when you talk about the story that one's been 00:37:33.986 --> 00:37:37.006 A:middle in the story books for, you know, more than a decade 00:37:37.006 --> 00:37:40.106 A:middle in terms of having this job is something 00:37:40.106 --> 00:37:42.936 A:middle that I definitely want to do and finish. 00:37:42.936 --> 00:37:46.966 A:middle A couple of people recently have really been sort of pushing me, 00:37:46.966 --> 00:37:53.006 A:middle nudging me to do this, and I definitely want to do it. 00:37:53.006 --> 00:37:56.866 A:middle You know, I think that it's important for me not to be one 00:37:56.866 --> 00:37:59.226 A:middle of those numbers, but what I realized when I was walking 00:37:59.226 --> 00:38:01.806 A:middle over here, I was thinking, oh, this is going to come up? 00:38:01.806 --> 00:38:02.846 A:middle I hate talking about this. 00:38:02.846 --> 00:38:04.096 A:middle >> Well, what has advised you though? 00:38:04.476 --> 00:38:04.896 A:middle >> Yeah, that's [inaudible]. 00:38:04.896 --> 00:38:06.916 A:middle >> I mean, what about the other direction? 00:38:06.916 --> 00:38:08.516 A:middle Like at this point, I don't know what advise you. 00:38:08.766 --> 00:38:10.986 A:middle >> OK, so I have a friend 00:38:11.226 --> 00:38:13.686 A:middle who calls me probably every three months or so 00:38:13.686 --> 00:38:16.436 A:middle who has a master's from Princeton on a law degree. 00:38:16.626 --> 00:38:19.536 A:middle I have a few friends who call me periodically and say, 00:38:19.686 --> 00:38:20.786 A:middle are you going to finish? 00:38:20.966 --> 00:38:22.186 A:middle What's going on? 00:38:22.186 --> 00:38:25.676 A:middle And they say things to me like you never leave a man down. 00:38:25.676 --> 00:38:27.216 A:middle You always go back and get up. 00:38:27.476 --> 00:38:28.766 A:middle You know, finish what you started, 00:38:28.766 --> 00:38:30.136 A:middle that sort of thing and they know. 00:38:30.136 --> 00:38:32.326 A:middle For me, it really does kill me inside 00:38:32.326 --> 00:38:34.326 A:middle that I didn't finish something that I started. 00:38:34.686 --> 00:38:37.256 A:middle And again, going back to the opportunities 00:38:37.336 --> 00:38:41.616 A:middle that I have been able to have, it's really hard for me 00:38:41.616 --> 00:38:44.486 A:middle to leave this out there and say that it's unfinished, right? 00:38:44.786 --> 00:38:44.886 A:middle >> Right. 00:38:44.886 --> 00:38:48.406 A:middle >> And so my friend calls me the other day and he's telling me 00:38:48.406 --> 00:38:51.226 A:middle about the reunion at Princeton next year, 00:38:51.226 --> 00:38:57.226 A:middle which is African-American, Black reunion. 00:38:57.746 --> 00:38:59.226 A:middle And so he goes into this whole thing 00:38:59.226 --> 00:39:01.126 A:middle about do you know how many alumni there are? 00:39:01.126 --> 00:39:03.706 A:middle Do you know how many, you know, black alumni there are? 00:39:03.706 --> 00:39:05.006 A:middle And I'm like, no, I don't know. 00:39:05.006 --> 00:39:06.046 A:middle I don't look at these numbers [laughter]. 00:39:06.126 --> 00:39:07.736 A:middle >> Looking at other numbers. 00:39:07.736 --> 00:39:08.366 A:middle >> I don't know. 00:39:08.496 --> 00:39:10.006 A:middle You know, I don't do this. 00:39:10.006 --> 00:39:11.146 A:middle You tell me, right? 00:39:11.146 --> 00:39:12.436 A:middle You're on the planning committee. 00:39:12.436 --> 00:39:15.806 A:middle And so he tells me that they're a little 00:39:15.806 --> 00:39:18.886 A:middle over 5,000 living black alumni at Princeton. 00:39:18.916 --> 00:39:20.006 A:middle I'm like OK. 00:39:20.516 --> 00:39:23.076 A:middle It's not that many, really, when you think about it. 00:39:23.076 --> 00:39:24.686 A:middle And then he tells me, in the graduate school, 00:39:24.686 --> 00:39:26.516 A:middle that number is like 550. 00:39:26.696 --> 00:39:26.976 A:middle >> Wow. 00:39:29.006 --> 00:39:30.416 A:middle >> And I'm one of them. 00:39:30.416 --> 00:39:31.986 A:middle But I still feel incomplete, right? 00:39:31.986 --> 00:39:34.006 A:middle And so he's like, I'm not going to say anything else. 00:39:34.006 --> 00:39:35.546 A:middle I'm just going to leave you with that number. 00:39:36.586 --> 00:39:38.196 A:middle And so I'm like, oh, gosh, 00:39:38.476 --> 00:39:40.086 A:middle I hate it when he does stuff like that. 00:39:40.086 --> 00:39:45.416 A:middle So it really does eat away at me in some ways because I know 00:39:45.416 --> 00:39:47.366 A:middle that I can do it, I know that life took me 00:39:47.366 --> 00:39:48.606 A:middle in a different direction. 00:39:49.016 --> 00:39:52.666 A:middle But I think it is very common for a lot of students of color 00:39:52.666 --> 00:39:54.436 A:middle or students who don't necessarily have 00:39:54.436 --> 00:39:55.256 A:middle that privilege, right? 00:39:55.256 --> 00:39:57.216 A:middle You get those calls from home. 00:39:57.216 --> 00:39:59.366 A:middle You have these different challenges if you happen to go 00:39:59.366 --> 00:40:02.796 A:middle to school near where your family is and all of these things 00:40:02.796 --> 00:40:06.146 A:middle that are sort of pulling you away from, you know, 00:40:06.146 --> 00:40:08.156 A:middle the work that it is that you're trying to do. 00:40:08.156 --> 00:40:09.976 A:middle And I think that that's not uncommon. 00:40:10.456 --> 00:40:13.416 A:middle So even someone like me who feels like OK, I was able to go 00:40:13.416 --> 00:40:16.126 A:middle on and go to, you know, this great college and get 00:40:16.126 --> 00:40:19.126 A:middle into graduate school, I still have those pulls, right? 00:40:19.126 --> 00:40:23.396 A:middle Whereas I don't know if I had like a huge family network 00:40:23.396 --> 00:40:25.716 A:middle of people who'd gone to college and those sort of things 00:40:25.716 --> 00:40:28.486 A:middle if I would have been pulled away in the same way. 00:40:28.486 --> 00:40:32.156 A:middle And so, that's the thing that, you know, bothers me. 00:40:32.156 --> 00:40:34.186 A:middle It's not, I'm not one of these people who wants 00:40:34.186 --> 00:40:35.946 A:middle to be called, you know, doctor. 00:40:36.236 --> 00:40:38.496 A:middle That's not necessarily what it's about, 00:40:38.496 --> 00:40:41.196 A:middle it's just about finishing what I started I feel like I earned it. 00:40:41.196 --> 00:40:46.326 A:middle I spent four years in the cold being tortured by some very, 00:40:47.196 --> 00:40:50.336 A:middle you know, mean faculty. 00:40:50.476 --> 00:40:53.536 A:middle So I don't know, I mean, yeah, I have my master's 00:40:53.536 --> 00:40:54.806 A:middle but I would like to finish. 00:40:54.806 --> 00:40:56.396 A:middle >> Did you-- I mean did you to start your-- 00:40:56.396 --> 00:40:57.386 A:middle do you have your question 00:40:57.386 --> 00:40:58.746 A:middle that you're trying to work on now or-- 00:40:59.156 --> 00:41:00.496 A:middle >> I mean, I had a question. 00:41:00.496 --> 00:41:03.506 A:middle So when I was in college, I was definitely-- 00:41:03.506 --> 00:41:04.666 A:middle When I was in the master's program, 00:41:04.666 --> 00:41:07.926 A:middle I was definitely focused on higher Ed and ethnicity 00:41:07.926 --> 00:41:09.256 A:middle and social stratification. 00:41:09.256 --> 00:41:11.736 A:middle So at that point, I was looking at, you know, 00:41:11.816 --> 00:41:14.076 A:middle students in elite colleges and differences 00:41:14.076 --> 00:41:17.446 A:middle between African-Americans and Caribbean immigrants as appear-- 00:41:17.446 --> 00:41:21.106 A:middle as opposed to other student groups 00:41:21.106 --> 00:41:22.636 A:middle and how they navigate college. 00:41:22.636 --> 00:41:25.456 A:middle So I think those same questions apply, even when I look 00:41:25.456 --> 00:41:28.976 A:middle at the work that I do now on campus in terms 00:41:28.976 --> 00:41:31.746 A:middle of like the work we're doing in terms of equity 00:41:31.746 --> 00:41:33.986 A:middle and how students sort of navigate and again, 00:41:33.986 --> 00:41:37.056 A:middle going back to both the social capital that people have 00:41:37.056 --> 00:41:38.506 A:middle and the cultural capital, 00:41:38.746 --> 00:41:41.846 A:middle how they're able to navigate through. 00:41:42.616 --> 00:41:47.686 A:middle And so I think that I can do it, it's sitting down 00:41:47.686 --> 00:41:48.886 A:middle and having that focus. 00:41:48.886 --> 00:41:52.316 A:middle And life has, you know, pulled me in other directions, 00:41:52.316 --> 00:41:54.396 A:middle but I think that everything now is sort 00:41:54.396 --> 00:41:57.486 A:middle of pushing me back towards that. 00:41:57.486 --> 00:41:59.096 A:middle So if that happens, I'll come back 00:41:59.266 --> 00:42:00.866 A:middle and solve a few times about that. 00:42:00.866 --> 00:42:03.226 A:middle >> And how-- what would the next step for that be-- 00:42:03.226 --> 00:42:04.856 A:middle would that be, falling back up at Princeton 00:42:04.856 --> 00:42:07.416 A:middle or is there another institution that you look at or-- 00:42:07.816 --> 00:42:09.416 A:middle >> Yeah, so I still am fortunate 00:42:09.416 --> 00:42:12.306 A:middle in that it still is a possibility for me to do it 00:42:12.306 --> 00:42:14.776 A:middle through Princeton and so I've been slowly 00:42:14.776 --> 00:42:18.506 A:middle but surely having some conversations with people there, 00:42:18.706 --> 00:42:20.356 A:middle and it goes back to, you know, whether 00:42:20.356 --> 00:42:22.046 A:middle or not they believe I can do it. 00:42:22.346 --> 00:42:22.776 A:middle >> Right. 00:42:22.776 --> 00:42:23.846 A:middle >> You know, do they feel 00:42:23.846 --> 00:42:25.836 A:middle like it will be, you know, worthwhile. 00:42:25.836 --> 00:42:27.116 A:middle When you go to a school like that, 00:42:27.116 --> 00:42:29.016 A:middle one of the things I'm going to say about Princeton 00:42:29.016 --> 00:42:31.166 A:middle and why it was so different, you know, 00:42:31.166 --> 00:42:34.126 A:middle Princeton is truly an academic institution, 00:42:34.256 --> 00:42:36.276 A:middle in that they don't have professional schools 00:42:36.276 --> 00:42:36.896 A:middle at Princeton. 00:42:37.406 --> 00:42:41.476 A:middle And so it's not a very fun place to be. 00:42:41.976 --> 00:42:42.206 A:middle >> Right, right. 00:42:42.316 --> 00:42:43.386 A:middle And they count their slots. 00:42:43.666 --> 00:42:44.636 A:middle >> They count their slots, right? 00:42:44.636 --> 00:42:45.316 A:middle >> They count their slots. 00:42:45.316 --> 00:42:48.826 A:middle These are unique position-- These are unique opportunities 00:42:48.856 --> 00:42:50.766 A:middle for just a handful of people. 00:42:51.036 --> 00:42:51.286 A:middle >> Right. 00:42:51.286 --> 00:42:53.976 A:middle >> And if you are effective and efficient in that position-- 00:42:53.976 --> 00:42:55.856 A:middle >> Right. And you better know why you're here. 00:42:56.036 --> 00:42:59.156 A:middle You know, I told people like there were a lot of buildings. 00:42:59.156 --> 00:43:00.346 A:middle But they didn't have names on it. 00:43:00.346 --> 00:43:02.166 A:middle You're supposed to know where you're going. 00:43:02.166 --> 00:43:03.216 A:middle I mean, it wasn't friendly. 00:43:03.216 --> 00:43:05.436 A:middle There weren't like a lot of benches for people to sit 00:43:05.436 --> 00:43:07.346 A:middle and socialize and all of those things. 00:43:07.566 --> 00:43:13.076 A:middle So, you know, I realized that that was a challenge, 00:43:13.076 --> 00:43:15.166 A:middle but it's also, you know, that was a blessing 00:43:15.166 --> 00:43:16.826 A:middle and an opportunity that so few people-- 00:43:16.826 --> 00:43:18.746 A:middle one of my friend called me and told me about the numbers. 00:43:18.746 --> 00:43:20.156 A:middle I'm like, oh, those numbers are really-- 00:43:20.156 --> 00:43:23.426 A:middle you don't really think about it like that when you're living it. 00:43:23.736 --> 00:43:23.896 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:43:23.896 --> 00:43:27.346 A:middle >> You know, when I was one of four, I was thinking about it 00:43:27.346 --> 00:43:28.726 A:middle but not at that scale, right? 00:43:28.726 --> 00:43:30.536 A:middle I was just focused on me and, you know, 00:43:30.536 --> 00:43:32.816 A:middle the three other people in the program. 00:43:32.816 --> 00:43:35.406 A:middle So I think that that is something that is still 00:43:35.406 --> 00:43:38.666 A:middle in my mind, that it is something that I would like to do just 00:43:38.666 --> 00:43:40.336 A:middle because I had the opportunity. 00:43:40.646 --> 00:43:42.676 A:middle >> But how old your son now? 00:43:42.986 --> 00:43:45.436 A:middle >> So I have two kids, my kids are 9 and 13. 00:43:45.876 --> 00:43:50.106 A:middle And so yeah, but I want to finish 00:43:50.106 --> 00:43:51.206 A:middle because I don't want to ever-- 00:43:51.206 --> 00:43:51.376 A:middle >> No doubt. 00:43:51.376 --> 00:43:53.636 A:middle >> I don't want them to come home and tell me, mom, 00:43:53.636 --> 00:43:55.766 A:middle I'm dropping out of school or something like that. 00:43:55.766 --> 00:43:58.196 A:middle And they'll be like remember when you did this? 00:43:58.266 --> 00:44:00.316 A:middle So it is important to me. 00:44:00.316 --> 00:44:02.306 A:middle They don't quite understand it yet. 00:44:02.306 --> 00:44:04.296 A:middle Although the other day, my daughter was asking me 00:44:04.296 --> 00:44:07.116 A:middle like about this dissertation and what does that mean 00:44:07.116 --> 00:44:09.996 A:middle because she saw something I had written on the wall. 00:44:09.996 --> 00:44:11.626 A:middle And so I think it's important for me, 00:44:11.626 --> 00:44:13.126 A:middle and I would like to finish that. 00:44:13.126 --> 00:44:15.346 A:middle I mean, my parents obviously knew I was in grad school 00:44:15.346 --> 00:44:17.596 A:middle and I think that was the thing when my mom got sick. 00:44:18.006 --> 00:44:19.896 A:middle You know, she really didn't want me 00:44:19.896 --> 00:44:22.856 A:middle to stop doing what I was doing because of her. 00:44:23.246 --> 00:44:25.576 A:middle And I realized that that was part of the story, 00:44:25.576 --> 00:44:27.726 A:middle but that's no longer the story that I can tell 00:44:27.836 --> 00:44:29.266 A:middle about why I haven't finished. 00:44:29.856 --> 00:44:32.356 A:middle And so I either need to like figure it out, 00:44:32.486 --> 00:44:35.616 A:middle or give up on that, or, you know, go on to the next thing. 00:44:35.666 --> 00:44:36.086 A:middle And so-- 00:44:36.086 --> 00:44:38.976 A:middle >> I mean because in my mind as a guy who got a PhD was sort 00:44:38.976 --> 00:44:41.536 A:middle of on that track and then was taken off that track. 00:44:42.146 --> 00:44:45.576 A:middle The thing I think of now was, you know, my kid is 8 and 10. 00:44:45.576 --> 00:44:47.646 A:middle Like they'll never be 10 again. 00:44:47.726 --> 00:44:49.666 A:middle >> Right. Oh, no, and that's the thing. 00:44:49.666 --> 00:44:51.096 A:middle >> Right. And that's the hard part, right? 00:44:51.096 --> 00:44:52.666 A:middle >> And that's the hard part, right? 00:44:52.736 --> 00:44:55.906 A:middle So I think about that, too, when I think about oh, you know, 00:44:55.906 --> 00:44:57.696 A:middle my kids are definitely more privileged 00:44:57.696 --> 00:45:00.406 A:middle than I was growing up, you know, but then I also-- 00:45:00.406 --> 00:45:02.386 A:middle you know, I told you guys, my parents had jobs, 00:45:02.386 --> 00:45:03.766 A:middle they didn't have careers, right? 00:45:03.766 --> 00:45:06.726 A:middle I sort of feel like I have a career, my job is more 00:45:06.726 --> 00:45:08.096 A:middle than just a job, right? 00:45:08.096 --> 00:45:09.686 A:middle I take work home with me. 00:45:09.686 --> 00:45:13.056 A:middle It's part of my identity and who I am, 00:45:13.266 --> 00:45:17.656 A:middle but I'm definitely a mom, you know, first. 00:45:17.776 --> 00:45:19.826 A:middle I want my kids to have those values. 00:45:19.826 --> 00:45:21.966 A:middle My friends and I talk about this all the time, 00:45:22.366 --> 00:45:24.706 A:middle how do you instill those values in your kids, 00:45:25.046 --> 00:45:27.246 A:middle because they won't necessarily have those-- 00:45:27.936 --> 00:45:30.166 A:middle that desire, that yearning that you had? 00:45:30.166 --> 00:45:32.736 A:middle They don't have that, you know, like-- 00:45:33.166 --> 00:45:35.346 A:middle >> Right. They're not hungry. 00:45:35.346 --> 00:45:37.456 A:middle >> They're not necessarily hungry, right? 00:45:37.456 --> 00:45:43.406 A:middle So how do I instill that in them even though they have what they 00:45:43.406 --> 00:45:44.466 A:middle need, right? 00:45:44.466 --> 00:45:44.976 A:middle >> Right. 00:45:45.336 --> 00:45:47.696 A:middle >> But I want to go back to the basics 00:45:47.696 --> 00:45:51.966 A:middle of what my parents gave me, that these things are important 00:45:51.966 --> 00:45:55.016 A:middle and will always be important when they're in my house, 00:45:55.016 --> 00:45:56.836 A:middle when they leave my house, you know, when they go 00:45:56.836 --> 00:45:59.006 A:middle on to be working adults, that is important 00:45:59.006 --> 00:46:00.496 A:middle to have a strong work ethic. 00:46:00.746 --> 00:46:04.246 A:middle It's important to show up and be present, you know. 00:46:05.106 --> 00:46:08.276 A:middle Those are things that I want to be, you know, strongly rooted. 00:46:08.276 --> 00:46:09.836 A:middle >> Yeah. I'm one generation past you. 00:46:09.836 --> 00:46:11.606 A:middle So my mother was the one who sort of made 00:46:11.606 --> 00:46:13.916 A:middle that generational push my grandparents, you know, 00:46:13.986 --> 00:46:18.286 A:middle pick vegetables in Northern California, and my mom, 00:46:18.356 --> 00:46:21.736 A:middle you know, work as a maid in order to pay for UCLA. 00:46:21.816 --> 00:46:23.316 A:middle And then there's me, right? 00:46:23.776 --> 00:46:28.156 A:middle I think a big part was I used to garden with my grandfather. 00:46:28.686 --> 00:46:31.366 A:middle So I would garden, you know, the 12 hours every day, 00:46:31.436 --> 00:46:33.626 A:middle 6 days a week and see how people treat my grandfather. 00:46:34.406 --> 00:46:38.826 A:middle And, you know, I've never worked a day in my life, right, 00:46:38.886 --> 00:46:40.606 A:middle because I see what work looks like, right? 00:46:41.096 --> 00:46:46.646 A:middle And the thing that was lucky for me was that I could see how-- 00:46:46.816 --> 00:46:47.856 A:middle I could see the sacrifice. 00:46:48.226 --> 00:46:48.506 A:middle >> Right. 00:46:48.766 --> 00:46:52.876 A:middle >> Right? And now with my kids, I described the sacrifice. 00:46:52.876 --> 00:46:54.126 A:middle My grandparents had passed away. 00:46:54.926 --> 00:46:57.706 A:middle They know their grandmother, but they see her as a professional, 00:46:57.806 --> 00:46:59.336 A:middle not as someone who was a maid. 00:46:59.436 --> 00:46:59.706 A:middle >> Right. 00:46:59.866 --> 00:47:01.356 A:middle >> Right? And the question is, 00:47:01.356 --> 00:47:03.566 A:middle how do you get them hungry, right? 00:47:04.696 --> 00:47:04.866 A:middle >> Right. 00:47:04.866 --> 00:47:06.476 A:middle >> And that's my struggle also. 00:47:06.816 --> 00:47:11.456 A:middle >> Well, you know, I think that for me, you know, 00:47:11.666 --> 00:47:15.326 A:middle I have converse-- very real conversations with my kids 00:47:15.326 --> 00:47:17.446 A:middle because sometimes I think so much has changed 00:47:18.326 --> 00:47:19.816 A:middle and then I think so little has changed. 00:47:20.146 --> 00:47:20.256 A:middle >> Right. 00:47:20.806 --> 00:47:22.976 A:middle >> So when my daughter is in her classrooms, 00:47:23.656 --> 00:47:25.686 A:middle she might be the only African-American 00:47:26.066 --> 00:47:29.736 A:middle in her classrooms, in her honors classes, or one of two or one 00:47:29.736 --> 00:47:33.196 A:middle of three, which is exactly where I was. 00:47:33.516 --> 00:47:33.716 A:middle >> Right. 00:47:34.076 --> 00:47:36.666 A:middle >> Right? So that is familiar. 00:47:37.026 --> 00:47:41.396 A:middle You know, that's unfortunate in terms 00:47:41.396 --> 00:47:43.296 A:middle of where we are in the world now. 00:47:43.296 --> 00:47:47.126 A:middle So in that way, I can tell her always be proud of yourself, 00:47:47.606 --> 00:47:50.226 A:middle always, you know, do the best work that you can do. 00:47:50.226 --> 00:47:53.356 A:middle You know, put forward that effort. 00:47:53.356 --> 00:47:56.226 A:middle Never have anyone put you down and, you know, 00:47:56.526 --> 00:47:58.896 A:middle and so that is common. 00:47:58.976 --> 00:48:03.646 A:middle Although, you know, her everyday experience is not the same. 00:48:04.116 --> 00:48:09.336 A:middle And so, you know, we're working through that. 00:48:09.336 --> 00:48:12.486 A:middle But I don't know that-- there's so much 00:48:12.486 --> 00:48:14.706 A:middle that they don't understand and I don't know 00:48:14.706 --> 00:48:17.926 A:middle that I necessarily want to burden them with that either-- 00:48:17.926 --> 00:48:18.176 A:middle >> Sure, sure. 00:48:18.176 --> 00:48:20.386 A:middle >> -- because that's like my story. 00:48:20.386 --> 00:48:20.556 A:middle >> Sure. 00:48:20.556 --> 00:48:20.786 A:middle >> You know. 00:48:20.786 --> 00:48:25.726 A:middle >> Sure. And there was like an ugliness in terms of race 00:48:25.726 --> 00:48:29.226 A:middle in school and education that isn't quite there anymore. 00:48:29.556 --> 00:48:30.366 A:middle You know, that's different? 00:48:31.136 --> 00:48:32.496 A:middle >> Well, it is and it isn't. 00:48:32.496 --> 00:48:36.926 A:middle I mean, I've had you know, I've had some days where I-- 00:48:36.926 --> 00:48:39.226 A:middle my daughter has come home and things have been said to her 00:48:39.226 --> 00:48:40.476 A:middle and I'm thinking, gosh, really? 00:48:40.476 --> 00:48:41.056 A:middle >> Oh really. 00:48:41.056 --> 00:48:42.516 A:middle >> Do I have to go to school tomorrow 00:48:42.516 --> 00:48:43.906 A:middle and have this conversation? 00:48:44.566 --> 00:48:52.406 A:middle And I do, you know, but she's of the age now where we can have, 00:48:52.406 --> 00:48:53.766 A:middle you know, conversations 00:48:53.766 --> 00:48:56.446 A:middle and she's strongly grounded you know, in her identity, 00:48:56.446 --> 00:48:58.396 A:middle in her ability, in her confidence. 00:48:58.646 --> 00:49:01.866 A:middle Even my nine-year-old, you know, he can advocate for himself. 00:49:01.866 --> 00:49:03.936 A:middle That's the number one thing that I instill in them, 00:49:04.216 --> 00:49:08.416 A:middle be able to advocate for yourself, you know, work hard. 00:49:08.476 --> 00:49:10.066 A:middle Prove yourself through your work. 00:49:10.066 --> 00:49:12.026 A:middle Those are things that are really important. 00:49:12.026 --> 00:49:14.046 A:middle And then people won't necessarily-- 00:49:14.046 --> 00:49:17.536 A:middle they won't necessarily be able to doubt you. 00:49:17.706 --> 00:49:20.856 A:middle But, you know, the conversations I have with my kids are, 00:49:20.856 --> 00:49:22.876 A:middle you know, it's sad, because I do tell them 00:49:22.936 --> 00:49:25.526 A:middle that people will not necessarily give them the benefit 00:49:25.526 --> 00:49:28.326 A:middle of the doubt so they do have to work harder. 00:49:29.046 --> 00:49:31.936 A:middle They do have to prove themselves. 00:49:31.936 --> 00:49:34.506 A:middle And that's unfortunate, but that's the world 00:49:34.506 --> 00:49:35.556 A:middle that we actually live in. 00:49:35.556 --> 00:49:37.626 A:middle I'm not in a place where I'm so privileged 00:49:37.626 --> 00:49:39.976 A:middle where I can tell them, that's a non-factor. 00:49:40.326 --> 00:49:43.126 A:middle It absolutely is a factor for them. 00:49:43.126 --> 00:49:46.056 A:middle And they see that because we value education, so we're trying 00:49:46.056 --> 00:49:48.866 A:middle to get them into the right environment. 00:49:49.106 --> 00:49:52.406 A:middle Although I'm a strong proponent for, you know, public schooling, 00:49:52.406 --> 00:49:54.416 A:middle my kids go to public school. 00:49:55.606 --> 00:49:59.846 A:middle It's not as diverse where they are going to school, you know. 00:50:00.036 --> 00:50:04.126 A:middle But they are getting the best academic experience 00:50:04.126 --> 00:50:05.936 A:middle that I think is out there, you know, for them. 00:50:06.456 --> 00:50:08.916 A:middle So they do experience it in that way, 00:50:09.116 --> 00:50:11.686 A:middle and they do ask questions about that, you know. 00:50:12.156 --> 00:50:14.916 A:middle Why are they the only one or one of a few? 00:50:15.066 --> 00:50:18.216 A:middle And so we do have to have that conversation. 00:50:18.216 --> 00:50:21.456 A:middle So we haven't come as far as we think we've come in some ways. 00:50:21.806 --> 00:50:24.236 A:middle >> Let me ask this, so if you had a chance to talk 00:50:24.236 --> 00:50:26.976 A:middle to yourself back when you're 18, what would be the best piece 00:50:26.976 --> 00:50:28.076 A:middle of advice you would give yourself 00:50:28.976 --> 00:50:30.056 A:middle when you're starting this journey? 00:50:34.286 --> 00:50:40.236 A:middle >> Wow. I think it would be the things that I learned later on, 00:50:40.236 --> 00:50:42.696 A:middle like build those relationships with people sooner. 00:50:42.696 --> 00:50:45.366 A:middle I think I had a couple of those, like my freshman year, 00:50:45.366 --> 00:50:47.716 A:middle and my sophomore year, and then it really sort of took off. 00:50:47.716 --> 00:50:50.436 A:middle I would have done that sooner. 00:50:50.816 --> 00:50:56.686 A:middle I would have definitely taken more opportunities to be 00:50:56.686 --> 00:50:58.906 A:middle on like the independent study to, you know, 00:50:58.906 --> 00:51:01.166 A:middle travel and do things outside of my comfort zone 00:51:01.166 --> 00:51:05.176 A:middle because you're only in college once, you know, you're only 18, 00:51:05.366 --> 00:51:08.896 A:middle and 19, 20 once, you know. 00:51:08.896 --> 00:51:11.286 A:middle Life affords you some opportunity there 00:51:11.286 --> 00:51:13.106 A:middle that you never necessarily have. 00:51:13.406 --> 00:51:15.686 A:middle Again, I think those are the things 00:51:15.686 --> 00:51:16.986 A:middle that I would have told myself. 00:51:16.986 --> 00:51:21.026 A:middle I definitely think even though I changed majors, I was focused, 00:51:21.026 --> 00:51:24.236 A:middle I was able to graduate, you know, early, doing honors thesis 00:51:24.236 --> 00:51:27.146 A:middle and those sorts of things that I could have taken more advantage 00:51:27.146 --> 00:51:29.086 A:middle of my years in college. 00:51:29.506 --> 00:51:32.606 A:middle But there was a point where I was just like, I need to survive 00:51:32.606 --> 00:51:36.546 A:middle and I don't know if I can, you know. 00:51:36.546 --> 00:51:41.016 A:middle I think that's the challenge for, you know, 00:51:41.746 --> 00:51:45.116 A:middle students that even when you're in college and you're passionate 00:51:45.116 --> 00:51:48.596 A:middle about it and you're like, I like school, you know, 00:51:48.596 --> 00:51:50.706 A:middle there are all these other things that happen with life 00:51:50.706 --> 00:51:52.796 A:middle that pull you away from that. 00:51:52.796 --> 00:51:55.456 A:middle I had to work when I was, you know, at Stanford. 00:51:55.456 --> 00:51:57.566 A:middle I worked 30, 35 hours a week. 00:51:57.566 --> 00:51:57.826 A:middle >> Wow. 00:51:58.916 --> 00:52:00.436 A:middle >> Yeah, I didn't have a choice. 00:52:00.986 --> 00:52:03.566 A:middle My parents weren't going to send me money so I had made it 00:52:03.566 --> 00:52:06.766 A:middle to Stanford and I got financial aid and all these things. 00:52:06.766 --> 00:52:10.066 A:middle But if I wanted to be able to live and come home 00:52:10.066 --> 00:52:12.496 A:middle at Thanksgiving, you know, and those sorts 00:52:12.496 --> 00:52:13.816 A:middle of things, I had to work. 00:52:14.406 --> 00:52:17.006 A:middle So when you go back to that work, that's what I was doing. 00:52:17.006 --> 00:52:20.576 A:middle And so maybe my grades weren't as good as they could have been 00:52:20.576 --> 00:52:21.856 A:middle because I had to work. 00:52:24.276 --> 00:52:29.366 A:middle You know, I was still able to, you know, survive. 00:52:29.436 --> 00:52:30.826 A:middle And so those are the things where I feel 00:52:30.826 --> 00:52:33.956 A:middle like if I had been able to balance 00:52:33.956 --> 00:52:35.576 A:middle that out a little bit more, 00:52:35.576 --> 00:52:40.106 A:middle I would have maybe enjoyed it a little bit more. 00:52:40.406 --> 00:52:44.306 A:middle But I did what I had to do, you know, to get out 00:52:44.386 --> 00:52:45.866 A:middle but I was still able to finish early. 00:52:45.866 --> 00:52:49.726 A:middle So it's just that drive, right? 00:52:49.726 --> 00:52:49.846 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:52:49.846 --> 00:52:51.386 A:middle >> I went to summer school and it's just like, 00:52:51.386 --> 00:52:52.406 A:middle OK, you got to do this. 00:52:52.406 --> 00:52:54.656 A:middle You're in it now so just keep going 00:52:54.656 --> 00:52:57.956 A:middle on that hamster wheel and get it done. 00:52:57.956 --> 00:52:58.023 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:52:58.023 --> 00:52:58.376 A:middle >> So-- 00:52:58.376 --> 00:53:00.106 A:middle >> I think no matter how smart you are, 00:53:00.106 --> 00:53:02.266 A:middle it's hard to beat someone that just works harder than you. 00:53:02.416 --> 00:53:02.546 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:53:02.546 --> 00:53:03.336 A:middle >> At the end of the day, 00:53:03.336 --> 00:53:04.746 A:middle that's just what it comes down to, right? 00:53:04.956 --> 00:53:05.356 A:middle >> Yeah, yeah. 00:53:05.446 --> 00:53:06.846 A:middle And I don't think like I don't-- 00:53:07.626 --> 00:53:09.836 A:middle I never characterize myself as like, you know, 00:53:09.836 --> 00:53:12.046 A:middle one of those smart people who just see something 00:53:12.046 --> 00:53:13.126 A:middle and they get it the first time. 00:53:13.476 --> 00:53:15.626 A:middle It was all about working hard. 00:53:15.626 --> 00:53:19.456 A:middle That is what my dad taught me you know, work hard, read, 00:53:19.456 --> 00:53:23.356 A:middle never let someone have that information, you know, 00:53:23.356 --> 00:53:24.976 A:middle you have access to it. 00:53:24.976 --> 00:53:27.376 A:middle So going back to those books being in the house, 00:53:27.556 --> 00:53:30.936 A:middle getting that information, those are things that I try 00:53:30.936 --> 00:53:34.226 A:middle to instill, you know, in my kids, so yeah. 00:53:35.776 --> 00:53:38.606 A:middle >> I think that that's going to take us up for this part 00:53:38.606 --> 00:53:41.416 A:middle of the interview, but it-- we haven't finished the story yet. 00:53:41.416 --> 00:53:41.486 A:middle >> No. 00:53:41.906 --> 00:53:46.566 A:middle >> So we've gotten through grad school but the steps 00:53:46.566 --> 00:53:50.366 A:middle that took you from grad school, and once you got back home 00:53:50.366 --> 00:53:52.786 A:middle and to your teaching career that you mentioned, 00:53:53.216 --> 00:53:54.526 A:middle there's plenty more to tell. 00:53:54.526 --> 00:53:57.426 A:middle So is to be continued here. 00:53:57.616 --> 00:53:58.926 A:middle >> Yeah, I really appreciate it. 00:53:58.926 --> 00:54:02.646 A:middle I mean, you're such a important part of what's going 00:54:02.646 --> 00:54:03.946 A:middle on in Valley Colleges. 00:54:04.026 --> 00:54:06.916 A:middle It's great to hear sort of the motivation and drive 00:54:06.916 --> 00:54:09.056 A:middle of why you're able to do that. 00:54:09.126 --> 00:54:09.596 A:middle >> All right. 00:54:09.926 --> 00:54:10.486 A:middle Thank you, guys. 00:54:10.546 --> 00:54:11.456 A:middle >> Thank you so much, Michelle.