WEBVTT 00:00:00.406 --> 00:00:04.486 A:middle >> Welcome to the Valley College Connection, where John Kawai 00:00:04.486 --> 00:00:07.636 A:middle and Scott Weigand, two Valley professors engage 00:00:07.636 --> 00:00:11.056 A:middle in a conversation about success with educators and students. 00:00:11.056 --> 00:00:13.376 A:middle Each week they'll sit down with a different guest to find 00:00:13.376 --> 00:00:16.236 A:middle out ways each of us have had to plan, persevere 00:00:16.346 --> 00:00:18.116 A:middle and overcome to where we are now. 00:00:18.156 --> 00:00:20.876 A:middle The show will also highlight resources and services 00:00:20.876 --> 00:00:23.456 A:middle that are working to make a difference at Valley College. 00:00:23.646 --> 00:00:27.006 A:middle >> We are joined today by Howard Levine, professor of accounting 00:00:27.006 --> 00:00:28.336 A:middle at Los Angeles Valley College. 00:00:28.406 --> 00:00:29.966 A:middle Thank you so much for sitting down with us, Howard. 00:00:29.966 --> 00:00:30.676 A:middle >> It's my pleasure. 00:00:31.006 --> 00:00:32.476 A:middle >> We wanted to start off if you could share 00:00:32.476 --> 00:00:35.386 A:middle with us your background, the journey that led you here 00:00:35.386 --> 00:00:37.976 A:middle to Valley College and take it as far back as you'd like to go. 00:00:37.976 --> 00:00:38.446 A:middle >> Sure, Scott. 00:00:38.446 --> 00:00:41.826 A:middle So I was born in Chicago and we moved here when I was three. 00:00:42.196 --> 00:00:43.456 A:middle And the interesting story 00:00:43.456 --> 00:00:45.306 A:middle in that is my father was an insurance agent 00:00:45.456 --> 00:00:49.396 A:middle and he was sitting in his car in March in the snow saying, 00:00:49.396 --> 00:00:50.926 A:middle "There's got to be more to life than this." 00:00:51.036 --> 00:00:53.306 A:middle And literally that September we were in Los Angeles. 00:00:53.816 --> 00:00:54.046 A:middle >> Wow. 00:00:54.246 --> 00:00:58.136 A:middle >> We first moved on Riverside and Hazelton 00:00:59.086 --> 00:01:01.966 A:middle across from what is now the Fashion Square. 00:01:01.966 --> 00:01:04.516 A:middle When I was a little kid that was just a parking lot. 00:01:04.516 --> 00:01:05.416 A:middle >> And what city is that? 00:01:05.616 --> 00:01:06.316 A:middle >> In Venice. 00:01:06.586 --> 00:01:08.376 A:middle >> So yeah, that's just up the road here. 00:01:08.376 --> 00:01:09.426 A:middle >> Yeah, it might be Sherman Oaks, yeah. 00:01:09.526 --> 00:01:09.593 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:01:09.593 --> 00:01:10.786 A:middle >> Right around the corner. 00:01:10.896 --> 00:01:13.146 A:middle I went to Woodman Avenue Elementary School 00:01:13.146 --> 00:01:15.776 A:middle which was destroyed to make the mall. 00:01:16.216 --> 00:01:17.706 A:middle >> Wow, now what brought the family 00:01:17.706 --> 00:01:19.156 A:middle to that specific location? 00:01:19.156 --> 00:01:21.036 A:middle Why the San Fernando valley? 00:01:21.456 --> 00:01:22.666 A:middle >> My grandparents were here. 00:01:22.666 --> 00:01:23.236 A:middle >> Ah, okay. 00:01:23.456 --> 00:01:27.806 A:middle >> And it was -- at that time it was booming so that was the time 00:01:27.806 --> 00:01:28.676 A:middle when people would come here. 00:01:29.146 --> 00:01:29.396 A:middle >> Okay. 00:01:29.916 --> 00:01:32.356 A:middle >> So they came there, they moved there when I was -- 00:01:32.356 --> 00:01:33.696 A:middle as I said, when I was three. 00:01:34.176 --> 00:01:37.146 A:middle I went to various elementary schools. 00:01:37.146 --> 00:01:38.286 A:middle I went to Chandler. 00:01:38.606 --> 00:01:39.886 A:middle I went to Hazelton and ended 00:01:39.886 --> 00:01:41.646 A:middle up at Irwin Street School in third grade. 00:01:41.906 --> 00:01:44.336 A:middle Irwin Street School is at Fulton and Victory 00:01:44.336 --> 00:01:45.196 A:middle about a mile from here. 00:01:45.406 --> 00:01:46.326 A:middle >> Wow, okay. 00:01:46.326 --> 00:01:49.156 A:middle >> And I grew up there pretty much my entire life, 00:01:49.396 --> 00:01:50.246 A:middle since three years old. 00:01:50.586 --> 00:01:53.196 A:middle >> What was your -- at that point as you were growing up, 00:01:53.196 --> 00:01:56.806 A:middle what was your familiarity with Los Angeles Valley College? 00:01:56.806 --> 00:01:59.236 A:middle I mean, in terms of it, you know, 00:01:59.236 --> 00:02:00.776 A:middle being a presence in the community? 00:02:00.776 --> 00:02:02.926 A:middle Or what did you know about it? 00:02:02.986 --> 00:02:03.596 A:middle >> Absolutely. 00:02:03.656 --> 00:02:04.886 A:middle We played football here. 00:02:05.446 --> 00:02:09.076 A:middle My friends and I would ride our bikes, literally over here. 00:02:09.316 --> 00:02:11.456 A:middle We'd play football and play tennis here. 00:02:11.666 --> 00:02:12.216 A:middle >> Wow. 00:02:12.216 --> 00:02:13.446 A:middle >> And I knew it was a college 00:02:14.006 --> 00:02:17.586 A:middle and so we used the facilities, essentially. 00:02:17.586 --> 00:02:19.656 A:middle So I went to Irwin Street Elementary School, 00:02:19.936 --> 00:02:24.026 A:middle Madison Middle School which is again Ethel and -- 00:02:24.666 --> 00:02:25.886 A:middle between Van Owen and Coldwater, 00:02:25.886 --> 00:02:27.316 A:middle about a mile and a half from here. 00:02:27.616 --> 00:02:28.676 A:middle And then I ended up going 00:02:28.676 --> 00:02:30.186 A:middle to Grant High School across the street. 00:02:30.346 --> 00:02:30.746 A:middle >> Okay. 00:02:30.966 --> 00:02:33.866 A:middle >> Okay, so at that point I was trying to figure 00:02:33.866 --> 00:02:34.876 A:middle out what I wanted to do. 00:02:35.226 --> 00:02:36.156 A:middle >> And were you a good student 00:02:36.156 --> 00:02:37.566 A:middle in elementary school and high school? 00:02:39.006 --> 00:02:41.436 A:middle >> The answer is no and yes. 00:02:42.086 --> 00:02:46.836 A:middle Okay? The first two semesters in both middle school 00:02:46.836 --> 00:02:48.636 A:middle and high school, I was horrible. 00:02:48.996 --> 00:02:50.626 A:middle But then I figured it out and then it was all A's. 00:02:51.436 --> 00:02:54.696 A:middle But it took me a while to get adapted to the new environment. 00:02:54.976 --> 00:02:55.276 A:middle >> Right. 00:02:55.276 --> 00:02:57.736 A:middle >> So the answer is both no, I was not at the beginning. 00:02:57.926 --> 00:03:00.336 A:middle My mother of course thinks I was the best student ever, 00:03:00.336 --> 00:03:01.416 A:middle but all mothers think that. 00:03:01.616 --> 00:03:02.446 A:middle >> They have to, right? 00:03:02.446 --> 00:03:03.416 A:middle >> Yeah, they're being mothers. 00:03:03.556 --> 00:03:07.616 A:middle But once I figured it out, then I would do very well. 00:03:07.706 --> 00:03:09.236 A:middle >> So what did you figure out? 00:03:09.376 --> 00:03:09.976 A:middle What had to change? 00:03:12.066 --> 00:03:13.196 A:middle >> A couple of things actually. 00:03:13.426 --> 00:03:16.176 A:middle First of all it was getting a teacher that inspired me. 00:03:16.846 --> 00:03:19.286 A:middle Certainly in algebra there was one of those. 00:03:19.756 --> 00:03:21.696 A:middle And secondly was a course that inspired me. 00:03:22.016 --> 00:03:23.876 A:middle So when I was at Grant I took this class 00:03:23.876 --> 00:03:26.216 A:middle which is the equivalent of what we have for business one. 00:03:26.976 --> 00:03:30.186 A:middle And Art Muller was the name of the teacher who coincidentally 00:03:30.186 --> 00:03:32.736 A:middle when I started teaching here was also a teacher. 00:03:32.736 --> 00:03:35.436 A:middle It's weird when you're teaching with one of your teachers. 00:03:35.436 --> 00:03:36.936 A:middle That's strange in and of itself. 00:03:37.016 --> 00:03:37.386 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:03:37.386 --> 00:03:39.186 A:middle >> And the business one inspired me -- 00:03:39.186 --> 00:03:42.416 A:middle I then also took at Grant a bookkeeping course, 00:03:42.896 --> 00:03:43.756 A:middle basic bookkeeping. 00:03:44.486 --> 00:03:46.276 A:middle And I seemed to have a knack for it. 00:03:46.726 --> 00:03:50.826 A:middle So I would do the work and then keep on going, 00:03:50.826 --> 00:03:53.066 A:middle and the teacher -- her name was Trudy Light. 00:03:53.066 --> 00:03:54.046 A:middle I'll never forget her. 00:03:55.266 --> 00:03:58.366 A:middle Recognized that in me and kept on giving me more and more work. 00:03:58.866 --> 00:04:00.856 A:middle So I essentially did like four semesters 00:04:00.856 --> 00:04:02.096 A:middle of work in two semesters. 00:04:02.156 --> 00:04:02.546 A:middle >> Oh wow. 00:04:02.616 --> 00:04:04.556 A:middle >> So I just kept on going. 00:04:04.556 --> 00:04:07.326 A:middle And she recognized that and obviously I enjoyed doing it 00:04:07.756 --> 00:04:09.696 A:middle So that was an inspiration as well, 00:04:10.526 --> 00:04:12.336 A:middle was actually having good teachers. 00:04:15.046 --> 00:04:16.096 A:middle >> So you're inspired at this point. 00:04:16.096 --> 00:04:19.106 A:middle You're succeeding at Grant and as you're starting 00:04:19.106 --> 00:04:21.706 A:middle to get closer towards graduating, 00:04:21.706 --> 00:04:23.046 A:middle are you thinking college? 00:04:23.046 --> 00:04:24.756 A:middle Are you starting to make plans for that? 00:04:24.756 --> 00:04:26.286 A:middle Where were you at with that decision? 00:04:26.286 --> 00:04:28.246 A:middle >> Oh there was in my family, "You're going to college." 00:04:28.246 --> 00:04:28.906 A:middle >> No choice, huh? 00:04:28.906 --> 00:04:29.806 A:middle That was a given. 00:04:29.806 --> 00:04:30.926 A:middle >> There was no choice. 00:04:33.056 --> 00:04:35.556 A:middle I was going actually to -- considering an insurance major 00:04:35.846 --> 00:04:37.896 A:middle because my father was an insurance agent. 00:04:39.156 --> 00:04:42.716 A:middle And he happened to know who was then the dean 00:04:42.716 --> 00:04:44.366 A:middle of the School of Business at CSUN. 00:04:45.256 --> 00:04:45.466 A:middle >> Okay. 00:04:45.466 --> 00:04:47.516 A:middle >> And the guy actually was the president of CSUN, 00:04:47.516 --> 00:04:49.286 A:middle then he stopped being the president and was the dean. 00:04:49.536 --> 00:04:50.996 A:middle So he went and sat with him in his office. 00:04:50.996 --> 00:04:53.316 A:middle To this day I can remember sitting with his office. 00:04:54.026 --> 00:04:56.046 A:middle And I was trying to decide between going 00:04:56.156 --> 00:04:57.976 A:middle to CSUN and San Diego State. 00:04:58.236 --> 00:05:00.646 A:middle And the guy looked at me and said probably one 00:05:00.646 --> 00:05:02.386 A:middle of the best advice I've ever gotten. 00:05:02.386 --> 00:05:04.556 A:middle He said, "Go away to school." 00:05:05.206 --> 00:05:07.326 A:middle He said, "You can get a good education wherever you go. 00:05:07.916 --> 00:05:11.266 A:middle But if you go away to school, then you're going to learn more 00:05:11.266 --> 00:05:13.596 A:middle about the world and not just the books." 00:05:13.596 --> 00:05:13.686 A:middle >> Right. 00:05:13.936 --> 00:05:14.956 A:middle >> So that was my decision. 00:05:14.956 --> 00:05:17.046 A:middle I went to San Diego State as an insurance major, 00:05:17.376 --> 00:05:18.916 A:middle but immediately changed to accounting. 00:05:19.596 --> 00:05:21.176 A:middle >> So they had an insurance major back then? 00:05:21.296 --> 00:05:22.856 A:middle >> Yeah. Hard to believe, isn't it? 00:05:23.486 --> 00:05:25.826 A:middle >> So these majors then were much more applied 00:05:25.826 --> 00:05:26.816 A:middle than what they are now? 00:05:27.636 --> 00:05:28.756 A:middle >> I think they're about the same. 00:05:28.756 --> 00:05:30.396 A:middle The insurance might have just died off. 00:05:30.456 --> 00:05:31.816 A:middle They still have accounting and finance 00:05:31.816 --> 00:05:33.136 A:middle and marketing and management. 00:05:33.456 --> 00:05:36.056 A:middle But I think insurance -- on the other hand, 00:05:36.416 --> 00:05:37.716 A:middle they may still have it for all I know. 00:05:37.976 --> 00:05:39.766 A:middle >> And it's not being an actualist? 00:05:39.766 --> 00:05:42.286 A:middle It's actually selling insurance or understanding insurance? 00:05:42.286 --> 00:05:44.166 A:middle >> The insurance industry is not just 00:05:44.166 --> 00:05:45.836 A:middle as you math guys think actuary. 00:05:46.246 --> 00:05:50.116 A:middle It's also selling, it's also marketing it. 00:05:50.236 --> 00:05:53.296 A:middle There's a lot of aspects, insurance management. 00:05:53.596 --> 00:05:54.446 A:middle There are really a lot of aspects. 00:05:54.446 --> 00:05:55.836 A:middle And then there's not just insurance. 00:05:55.836 --> 00:06:00.736 A:middle There's casualty, health insurance, property, all kinds. 00:06:00.926 --> 00:06:02.006 A:middle Life and disability. 00:06:02.676 --> 00:06:02.796 A:middle Yeah. 00:06:03.216 --> 00:06:04.846 A:middle >> So then what happened at San Diego State? 00:06:05.886 --> 00:06:07.046 A:middle >> San Diego State was a blast. 00:06:08.206 --> 00:06:11.676 A:middle When I was there, it was the party school of the country. 00:06:11.796 --> 00:06:14.386 A:middle >> Oh, it has that reputation I mean today even still. 00:06:14.386 --> 00:06:17.846 A:middle >> Today is not anything near what it was then. 00:06:17.926 --> 00:06:18.846 A:middle I'm going to tell you. 00:06:20.046 --> 00:06:21.766 A:middle I'm going to tell you. 00:06:21.766 --> 00:06:25.066 A:middle No, without going into detail, it was remarkable. 00:06:25.356 --> 00:06:25.636 A:middle >> Right. 00:06:25.636 --> 00:06:29.506 A:middle >> I mean, absolutely every night was just amazing. 00:06:29.506 --> 00:06:32.696 A:middle But you've had to figure what you wanted to do. 00:06:33.076 --> 00:06:33.286 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:06:33.286 --> 00:06:35.446 A:middle >> So what I would do, I would go to the library every night, 00:06:35.446 --> 00:06:37.096 A:middle probably be back by nine. 00:06:37.856 --> 00:06:40.476 A:middle Hang out in the dorm till 12:00 or 1:00 or whatever time, 00:06:40.476 --> 00:06:41.846 A:middle get up the next morning and do it again. 00:06:42.036 --> 00:06:44.746 A:middle In other words, if you make time to study, you study. 00:06:44.936 --> 00:06:45.236 A:middle >> Right. 00:06:45.236 --> 00:06:47.306 A:middle >> If you want to party, you can party. 00:06:47.506 --> 00:06:49.286 A:middle It's just what everybody does. 00:06:49.376 --> 00:06:49.506 A:middle >> Right. 00:06:49.506 --> 00:06:52.046 A:middle >> Okay. And you have to figure out what's best for you. 00:06:52.426 --> 00:06:54.176 A:middle So I spent my four years there. 00:06:54.176 --> 00:06:56.486 A:middle The first year in the dorm was wild. 00:06:57.126 --> 00:07:00.676 A:middle The second year of the dorm I became what was called a student 00:07:00.676 --> 00:07:01.586 A:middle assistant, I believe. 00:07:01.816 --> 00:07:03.006 A:middle Basically sitting at the desk. 00:07:03.216 --> 00:07:03.546 A:middle >> Okay. 00:07:03.626 --> 00:07:05.226 A:middle >> Okay, and watching the girls walk by. 00:07:05.226 --> 00:07:06.986 A:middle >> Okay, so that was on campus work? 00:07:06.986 --> 00:07:07.916 A:middle You're working on campus? 00:07:07.916 --> 00:07:08.396 A:middle >> On campus work. 00:07:08.396 --> 00:07:08.556 A:middle >> Okay. 00:07:08.556 --> 00:07:09.586 A:middle >> And you got paid a little bit. 00:07:09.586 --> 00:07:10.016 A:middle >> Right. 00:07:10.016 --> 00:07:11.106 A:middle >> Not so bad. 00:07:11.476 --> 00:07:11.766 A:middle >> Right. 00:07:12.106 --> 00:07:13.676 A:middle >> The third year that I became an RA 00:07:13.676 --> 00:07:15.756 A:middle which is a resident assistant which means you're in charge 00:07:15.756 --> 00:07:17.466 A:middle of a couple of floors in the dorm. 00:07:17.466 --> 00:07:17.626 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:07:18.066 --> 00:07:20.756 A:middle >> And then the fourth year I moved to an apartment. 00:07:20.986 --> 00:07:22.156 A:middle So I was in the dorm three years. 00:07:22.156 --> 00:07:24.736 A:middle Honestly, probably should only have been there two years. 00:07:24.736 --> 00:07:26.516 A:middle The third year was a little bit burdensome. 00:07:27.116 --> 00:07:31.316 A:middle But many of the skills I got that I have today was 00:07:31.316 --> 00:07:32.446 A:middle because of that experience. 00:07:32.486 --> 00:07:33.836 A:middle I learned how to talk to people, 00:07:34.036 --> 00:07:35.976 A:middle how to deal with people, how to read people. 00:07:35.976 --> 00:07:36.096 A:middle >> Right. 00:07:36.266 --> 00:07:37.856 A:middle >> How to deal with difficult people. 00:07:38.416 --> 00:07:41.306 A:middle And so many of the skills I used in my business and what I use 00:07:41.306 --> 00:07:43.586 A:middle in the class today are directly related 00:07:43.636 --> 00:07:45.726 A:middle to the time I spent in the dorm. 00:07:46.126 --> 00:07:47.576 A:middle >> It's interesting the advice that you got 00:07:47.576 --> 00:07:49.476 A:middle from the dean at CSUN, you know. 00:07:49.476 --> 00:07:51.266 A:middle Once you go away to school it's this opportunity 00:07:51.266 --> 00:07:54.336 A:middle for a whole other sort of type of social education, you know, 00:07:54.336 --> 00:07:56.126 A:middle that's hard to put a price on that. 00:07:56.306 --> 00:07:57.956 A:middle >> Let me tell you, and I tell students, 00:07:57.956 --> 00:07:59.546 A:middle if you have the opportunity -- 00:07:59.546 --> 00:08:01.786 A:middle now most cannot afford to go away. 00:08:01.996 --> 00:08:02.116 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:08:02.396 --> 00:08:05.426 A:middle >> Fine. But if you have an opportunity, take it. 00:08:05.516 --> 00:08:05.716 A:middle >> Right. 00:08:05.716 --> 00:08:07.686 A:middle >> Because you learn so much more than just sitting 00:08:07.686 --> 00:08:09.246 A:middle at home with your family. 00:08:09.516 --> 00:08:10.466 A:middle >> Right. Right. 00:08:11.776 --> 00:08:13.516 A:middle >> So how did you then make the transition 00:08:13.576 --> 00:08:14.906 A:middle from insurance to accounting? 00:08:15.386 --> 00:08:15.986 A:middle >> I just told them. 00:08:16.356 --> 00:08:19.306 A:middle I just said to them -- because I was at that point -- 00:08:19.306 --> 00:08:22.166 A:middle and I think now as well -- if you want to change your major 00:08:22.166 --> 00:08:24.226 A:middle within the department, it's not a problem. 00:08:24.296 --> 00:08:26.136 A:middle >> But what inspired you to make that change? 00:08:26.346 --> 00:08:29.516 A:middle >> Oh, this teacher, Mrs. Light at Grant High School. 00:08:29.846 --> 00:08:31.296 A:middle Because I really liked the bookkeeping. 00:08:31.676 --> 00:08:35.226 A:middle And you should know that when I went there, similar to here, 00:08:35.656 --> 00:08:37.656 A:middle the classes were full, especially in accounting. 00:08:37.996 --> 00:08:38.916 A:middle They were just packed. 00:08:39.456 --> 00:08:41.886 A:middle So I'm not sure what the term is -- 00:08:41.886 --> 00:08:43.076 A:middle probably the same term you use. 00:08:43.076 --> 00:08:44.066 A:middle Crash a class. 00:08:44.206 --> 00:08:44.516 A:middle >> Right. 00:08:44.516 --> 00:08:47.506 A:middle >> In other words, the class is full 00:08:47.506 --> 00:08:48.636 A:middle so you go in and try to get in. 00:08:49.096 --> 00:08:51.166 A:middle And I believe there were 80 students 00:08:51.376 --> 00:08:53.306 A:middle in a class that held maybe 40. 00:08:53.496 --> 00:08:53.626 A:middle >> Wow. 00:08:53.656 --> 00:08:55.246 A:middle >> Okay, wall to wall students. 00:08:55.246 --> 00:08:55.526 A:middle >> Right. 00:08:56.006 --> 00:09:00.206 A:middle >> And I was not shy about staying there. 00:09:00.586 --> 00:09:01.706 A:middle So I sat there and sat there 00:09:01.706 --> 00:09:04.866 A:middle and on the first test I got like 99 out of 100. 00:09:06.036 --> 00:09:07.476 A:middle And I went up to the -- there was a TA. 00:09:07.476 --> 00:09:08.426 A:middle It wasn't a professor. 00:09:09.256 --> 00:09:12.536 A:middle I went up to the TA and said, "Look, I got a 99 out of 100," 00:09:12.896 --> 00:09:13.736 A:middle and she had to let me in. 00:09:14.136 --> 00:09:14.496 A:middle >> Right. 00:09:14.496 --> 00:09:16.076 A:middle >> Okay, and that was the way I made it 00:09:16.076 --> 00:09:18.406 A:middle through quite a few classes, was by showing 00:09:18.406 --> 00:09:20.076 A:middle that you know, you excel. 00:09:20.576 --> 00:09:22.886 A:middle >> And that's the secret of getting into a class. 00:09:22.886 --> 00:09:27.716 A:middle I always tell students, don't ask in front of everyone else. 00:09:28.226 --> 00:09:31.566 A:middle Be the last student to ask a teacher, "Can I get in?" 00:09:31.686 --> 00:09:32.366 A:middle >> Absolutely. 00:09:32.366 --> 00:09:33.866 A:middle Be the first one on the email. 00:09:33.956 --> 00:09:35.306 A:middle You send them an email as well. 00:09:35.306 --> 00:09:35.806 A:middle >> Right, right. 00:09:35.806 --> 00:09:36.906 A:middle >> And then the whole thing too is 00:09:36.906 --> 00:09:38.696 A:middle that you don't have to take no. 00:09:38.696 --> 00:09:41.656 A:middle If they say no, say, "I just want to hang out, 00:09:41.746 --> 00:09:44.186 A:middle take the class, do well on that first exam." 00:09:44.716 --> 00:09:47.186 A:middle And if you're the one who hangs out 00:09:47.186 --> 00:09:50.056 A:middle and does well before the add deadline, 00:09:50.056 --> 00:09:51.066 A:middle a lot of times they'll just let you 00:09:51.066 --> 00:09:52.466 A:middle in because kids will drop out. 00:09:52.466 --> 00:09:53.786 A:middle >> Absolutely. 00:09:53.946 --> 00:09:54.586 A:middle Absolutely. 00:09:55.226 --> 00:09:57.596 A:middle Be persistent, I think is what you're saying. 00:09:57.596 --> 00:09:57.836 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:09:57.836 --> 00:09:58.566 A:middle >> Could not agree more. 00:09:58.636 --> 00:09:58.826 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:09:59.276 --> 00:09:59.396 A:middle >> Yep. 00:10:01.336 --> 00:10:04.506 A:middle >> So you're at San Diego State, you're working on campus, 00:10:04.506 --> 00:10:06.536 A:middle you're an RA in that third year. 00:10:07.266 --> 00:10:08.716 A:middle Fourth year you move off campus. 00:10:08.716 --> 00:10:09.536 A:middle You have an apartment. 00:10:09.536 --> 00:10:12.176 A:middle Are you continuing to work on campus at that point? 00:10:12.176 --> 00:10:14.126 A:middle Was there sort of work that you were involved with? 00:10:14.126 --> 00:10:16.186 A:middle Any sort of extracurricular activities while you were 00:10:16.186 --> 00:10:16.586 A:middle a student? 00:10:16.586 --> 00:10:18.226 A:middle What else was -- what else were you doing? 00:10:18.426 --> 00:10:20.476 A:middle Were you fully involved and committed to studies? 00:10:20.476 --> 00:10:21.446 A:middle What else did it look like for you? 00:10:22.156 --> 00:10:23.996 A:middle >> I was very into making sure 00:10:23.996 --> 00:10:25.856 A:middle that I did well in all my classes. 00:10:27.156 --> 00:10:28.876 A:middle Having said that, you still have to have fun. 00:10:29.006 --> 00:10:32.756 A:middle I played softball, I played tennis, the usual stuff. 00:10:32.826 --> 00:10:34.826 A:middle But I was very committed to doing well in classes. 00:10:35.126 --> 00:10:38.736 A:middle I did work that fourth year as a senior. 00:10:39.076 --> 00:10:40.976 A:middle I did some internships. 00:10:40.976 --> 00:10:41.906 A:middle >> Ah, okay. 00:10:41.906 --> 00:10:45.356 A:middle >> I'll give you two quick stories about internships. 00:10:45.876 --> 00:10:48.866 A:middle One was a business needed somebody to do their accounting. 00:10:49.256 --> 00:10:50.296 A:middle So I did their books. 00:10:50.836 --> 00:10:52.766 A:middle As I look back, I don't know why they took me. 00:10:52.836 --> 00:10:53.916 A:middle I didn't know what the heck I was doing. 00:10:54.486 --> 00:10:55.836 A:middle But I did their books. 00:10:55.836 --> 00:10:56.056 A:middle >> Okay. 00:10:56.186 --> 00:10:58.046 A:middle >> Okay. And they were happy with it. 00:10:58.046 --> 00:10:59.336 A:middle I also did an internship 00:10:59.336 --> 00:11:01.536 A:middle at a company called Digital Development Company. 00:11:01.976 --> 00:11:04.586 A:middle Okay, they made -- I'm going 00:11:04.586 --> 00:11:06.976 A:middle to say computer components, mostly hard drives. 00:11:08.336 --> 00:11:11.306 A:middle And I went in as a drafting room manual. 00:11:11.486 --> 00:11:12.976 A:middle I was going to write a drafting room manual. 00:11:15.086 --> 00:11:17.656 A:middle I got a D in drafting in middle school, okay? 00:11:18.046 --> 00:11:19.486 A:middle Why they hired me, I don't know. 00:11:20.106 --> 00:11:22.626 A:middle But I learned what engineers do which is basically sit 00:11:22.626 --> 00:11:23.536 A:middle around and talk all day. 00:11:24.031 --> 00:11:26.031 A:middle [ Laughter ] 00:11:26.046 --> 00:11:28.176 A:middle And I took the drafting room manuals that they had -- 00:11:28.176 --> 00:11:30.736 A:middle they gave me a bunch of other ones, and kind of cut and paste 00:11:30.986 --> 00:11:32.046 A:middle and put together a manual. 00:11:32.046 --> 00:11:33.266 A:middle I didn't know what I was doing. 00:11:33.266 --> 00:11:34.626 A:middle It was every Friday I would go there. 00:11:35.626 --> 00:11:38.246 A:middle And they were so happy, then the following semester they had me 00:11:38.246 --> 00:11:39.646 A:middle write an engineering manual. 00:11:39.756 --> 00:11:40.266 A:middle >> Oh wow. 00:11:40.266 --> 00:11:42.526 A:middle >> With the exact same qualifications which were none. 00:11:42.606 --> 00:11:46.026 A:middle I just kind of made it up as I went, but they were very happy. 00:11:46.206 --> 00:11:46.456 A:middle >> Right. 00:11:46.586 --> 00:11:48.746 A:middle >> So I did that at the same time I studied, 00:11:48.746 --> 00:11:51.746 A:middle and I studied very hard because I wanted to pass the CPA test. 00:11:51.746 --> 00:11:55.426 A:middle At the end of the semester, the senior year, 00:11:55.806 --> 00:11:57.286 A:middle you were able to take the CPA exam. 00:11:57.636 --> 00:11:59.996 A:middle So I wanted to make sure that I had the courses for that. 00:12:00.826 --> 00:12:01.976 A:middle And occasionally I went to the beach. 00:12:04.076 --> 00:12:04.866 A:middle >> Let me back up for just a second. 00:12:04.866 --> 00:12:05.866 A:middle How did you get the internship? 00:12:05.866 --> 00:12:08.426 A:middle Was it something that was -- were you encouraged to do? 00:12:08.426 --> 00:12:09.306 A:middle Did you seek them out? 00:12:09.306 --> 00:12:10.516 A:middle Did someone tell you about, "Hey, 00:12:10.516 --> 00:12:12.726 A:middle this is a good idea for experience"? 00:12:12.726 --> 00:12:15.556 A:middle >> I believe that I saw a posting on campus. 00:12:15.556 --> 00:12:17.896 A:middle >> Okay. Something we've talked a lot about I think 00:12:17.896 --> 00:12:20.236 A:middle on this podcast, you know, at least John, 00:12:20.236 --> 00:12:22.266 A:middle you and I have talked about sort of in side conversations 00:12:22.266 --> 00:12:23.976 A:middle about the importance of internships for students. 00:12:23.976 --> 00:12:26.526 A:middle And a lot of times folks don't recognize the value of that. 00:12:26.656 --> 00:12:29.746 A:middle >> You know, I'm going to say internships are very difficult 00:12:29.886 --> 00:12:31.876 A:middle to get because with full employment -- 00:12:32.396 --> 00:12:34.946 A:middle right now, companies don't want interns, very frankly. 00:12:35.266 --> 00:12:38.026 A:middle But getting experience in some way. 00:12:38.216 --> 00:12:38.306 A:middle >> Right. 00:12:38.306 --> 00:12:40.566 A:middle >> And if it's unpaid, sometimes that's fine too. 00:12:40.566 --> 00:12:43.216 A:middle But getting some kind of experience I think is -- 00:12:43.466 --> 00:12:45.136 A:middle especially in the business world -- critical. 00:12:45.546 --> 00:12:47.296 A:middle >> Right. Yeah, I think it's a big advantage. 00:12:47.296 --> 00:12:50.916 A:middle If you can get a job pouring coffee just at a company 00:12:50.916 --> 00:12:53.556 A:middle that you're interested in and just see what everyone's job is, 00:12:54.186 --> 00:12:57.136 A:middle it's invaluable in just sort of saving years. 00:12:57.366 --> 00:12:59.096 A:middle Because you know what your target is now. 00:12:59.966 --> 00:13:02.776 A:middle And I always tell my students, before you go 00:13:02.776 --> 00:13:04.256 A:middle for an internship, go for a job. 00:13:04.986 --> 00:13:08.036 A:middle Because I think businesses value that more. 00:13:08.756 --> 00:13:10.826 A:middle Because for a job you've got to earn your stay, 00:13:10.826 --> 00:13:13.766 A:middle whereas for an internship they know you're there for ten weeks. 00:13:13.766 --> 00:13:16.106 A:middle And if you're late, you're only here for ten weeks. 00:13:16.106 --> 00:13:17.356 A:middle >> Absolutely, yeah. 00:13:17.356 --> 00:13:19.236 A:middle If you can get some kind of job and then -- 00:13:19.746 --> 00:13:23.346 A:middle I was speaking to a student just before we came here about -- 00:13:23.716 --> 00:13:25.056 A:middle she's working at one level. 00:13:25.056 --> 00:13:26.676 A:middle I said, "Try to be an assistant manager. 00:13:27.426 --> 00:13:28.626 A:middle Okay, get the title." 00:13:28.966 --> 00:13:29.786 A:middle Well, I'm not sure. 00:13:29.786 --> 00:13:30.646 A:middle I said, "No, try. 00:13:30.976 --> 00:13:32.436 A:middle Okay." What is an assistant manager? 00:13:32.436 --> 00:13:33.856 A:middle Maybe helps with scheduling. 00:13:34.136 --> 00:13:35.816 A:middle Maybe you'll help with ordering. 00:13:35.816 --> 00:13:38.406 A:middle I don't know what that means, but see if that's what you 00:13:38.406 --> 00:13:42.276 A:middle like before you get into having to do it full-time. 00:13:42.276 --> 00:13:42.826 A:middle >> Right. 00:13:42.926 --> 00:13:45.126 A:middle >> So clearly resume-building is critical. 00:13:45.216 --> 00:13:49.036 A:middle >> Yeah. And I find that when you are a student working, 00:13:49.366 --> 00:13:50.466 A:middle you get better mentorship. 00:13:51.246 --> 00:13:56.996 A:middle When you are a coworker and you are a full-time coworker, 00:13:57.146 --> 00:13:59.296 A:middle people are sometimes cagey with what they tell you. 00:13:59.966 --> 00:14:03.086 A:middle But when you are a student part-time worker, you just find 00:14:03.086 --> 00:14:05.266 A:middle that the people there want to help you. 00:14:05.636 --> 00:14:07.286 A:middle They want to give you good life advice. 00:14:07.606 --> 00:14:10.686 A:middle The best advice I ever got in terms of managing people, 00:14:10.686 --> 00:14:14.136 A:middle how to choose a career, just what to look out for always came 00:14:14.186 --> 00:14:16.966 A:middle as a part-time worker at a college. 00:14:16.966 --> 00:14:18.896 A:middle And once I got out of college, you know, 00:14:18.896 --> 00:14:20.146 A:middle good advice is hard to get. 00:14:20.546 --> 00:14:23.226 A:middle >> Yeah. Yeah, there's sort of an element of competition too 00:14:23.226 --> 00:14:25.566 A:middle that happens at the point where you're working side by side 00:14:25.566 --> 00:14:27.526 A:middle for colleagues and people might be vying for, you know, 00:14:27.526 --> 00:14:28.506 A:middle the next sort of promotion. 00:14:28.506 --> 00:14:29.956 A:middle Yeah, people are going to be less likely 00:14:29.956 --> 00:14:31.396 A:middle to give you that sort of advice. 00:14:31.396 --> 00:14:31.496 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:14:31.496 --> 00:14:33.246 A:middle >> But as a student, people want to mentor you. 00:14:33.436 --> 00:14:34.946 A:middle You know, they want to tell you, "Here's the path. 00:14:34.946 --> 00:14:35.606 A:middle Here's what you can do. 00:14:35.606 --> 00:14:36.946 A:middle I see so much potential in you." 00:14:37.116 --> 00:14:37.446 A:middle You know. 00:14:37.736 --> 00:14:40.276 A:middle >> So you know, the only time I ever had a CEO sit with me, 00:14:40.276 --> 00:14:43.486 A:middle just randomly give me good advice was always as a student. 00:14:44.036 --> 00:14:46.406 A:middle The best advice I always got was as a student worker. 00:14:46.666 --> 00:14:48.416 A:middle >> That's a really good point, yeah. 00:14:48.486 --> 00:14:51.836 A:middle And the question is not, should I do it? 00:14:51.836 --> 00:14:53.516 A:middle It's, how do I do it? 00:14:53.516 --> 00:14:56.526 A:middle >> I wonder what the college could do as far as sort of, 00:14:57.396 --> 00:15:00.026 A:middle you know, opportunities, programs, infrastructure. 00:15:00.026 --> 00:15:01.896 A:middle I mean, we have existing programs. 00:15:01.896 --> 00:15:04.146 A:middle We have, you know, the service learning program 00:15:04.146 --> 00:15:05.186 A:middle that's coordinated. 00:15:05.186 --> 00:15:08.196 A:middle We have the work that Doug Marriot Area does. 00:15:08.566 --> 00:15:11.076 A:middle I wonder sort of as we're moving ahead and thinking in terms 00:15:11.076 --> 00:15:13.836 A:middle of guided pathways, this critical piece about, 00:15:14.136 --> 00:15:16.256 A:middle as you said, Howard, not if but how. 00:15:16.736 --> 00:15:18.336 A:middle How do we do that more systematically? 00:15:18.336 --> 00:15:20.986 A:middle >> I think part of it is that if it's too easy, 00:15:20.986 --> 00:15:23.766 A:middle it feels like a class and they just don't put the 00:15:23.766 --> 00:15:24.436 A:middle investment in. 00:15:24.926 --> 00:15:28.726 A:middle I mean, we're right now for the LAVC Promise, you know, 00:15:28.726 --> 00:15:30.176 A:middle we're giving classes for free 00:15:30.176 --> 00:15:32.306 A:middle and it's not making the kids study any more. 00:15:32.856 --> 00:15:34.856 A:middle I think there's a sorting element that happens 00:15:35.236 --> 00:15:37.146 A:middle when you say, "I need to get a job. 00:15:37.146 --> 00:15:38.406 A:middle I'm going to figure out how to do it. 00:15:38.406 --> 00:15:39.646 A:middle I'm going to ask teachers. 00:15:39.736 --> 00:15:41.436 A:middle I'm going to be persistent about it." 00:15:41.786 --> 00:15:44.666 A:middle And it's not the job itself that sort of makes you. 00:15:44.666 --> 00:15:47.246 A:middle It's the process of becoming that person who says, 00:15:47.246 --> 00:15:48.726 A:middle "I will do it on this timeline." 00:15:49.166 --> 00:15:53.406 A:middle >> I think one of the issues also is most students 00:15:53.406 --> 00:15:55.026 A:middle at Valley don't know what they want to do. 00:15:55.456 --> 00:15:55.566 A:middle >> Right. 00:15:55.876 --> 00:16:00.246 A:middle >> And if you say, "I want to be an X," they may not know that. 00:16:00.636 --> 00:16:03.716 A:middle And to find an internship in something 00:16:03.716 --> 00:16:06.356 A:middle that I don't even know what I want to do is kind of hard. 00:16:06.706 --> 00:16:08.336 A:middle But the point is work somewhere. 00:16:08.816 --> 00:16:09.126 A:middle >> Right. 00:16:09.126 --> 00:16:10.866 A:middle >> Both you guys' point is well taken. 00:16:11.246 --> 00:16:11.666 A:middle Anywhere. 00:16:11.976 --> 00:16:12.206 A:middle >> Right. 00:16:12.206 --> 00:16:13.586 A:middle >> Get experience, okay? 00:16:14.196 --> 00:16:14.906 A:middle You may hate it. 00:16:15.016 --> 00:16:16.306 A:middle Good, get that out of the way now. 00:16:16.546 --> 00:16:19.256 A:middle >> Right. So probably the biggest lessons I learned along 00:16:19.256 --> 00:16:20.876 A:middle the way is what I don't want to do. 00:16:20.876 --> 00:16:20.946 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:16:21.336 --> 00:16:23.516 A:middle >> You know, I kept eking closer and closer 00:16:23.516 --> 00:16:25.196 A:middle to finding what it was I did want to do, 00:16:25.196 --> 00:16:26.806 A:middle but it became very clear, you know, 00:16:26.806 --> 00:16:29.606 A:middle the myriad of things I definitely do not want to do. 00:16:29.606 --> 00:16:30.216 A:middle >> Absolutely. 00:16:30.336 --> 00:16:31.146 A:middle All of this. 00:16:31.336 --> 00:16:33.906 A:middle >> So coming back to senior year, 00:16:33.906 --> 00:16:37.836 A:middle you said that the real focus then was passing the CPA exam. 00:16:37.986 --> 00:16:38.676 A:middle >> Sure, and getting a job. 00:16:38.676 --> 00:16:41.786 A:middle >> Can you explain a little bit about what that is for folks 00:16:41.786 --> 00:16:44.266 A:middle who might not know or understand sort of the scope of what 00:16:44.266 --> 00:16:45.656 A:middle that entails or what that leads to? 00:16:45.656 --> 00:16:45.936 A:middle >> Absolutely. 00:16:45.936 --> 00:16:48.426 A:middle I'll tell you what it was then and what it is now, okay? 00:16:48.646 --> 00:16:51.526 A:middle What it was then was there were four parts. 00:16:52.106 --> 00:16:54.756 A:middle It was 20 hours of tests. 00:16:55.306 --> 00:16:58.726 A:middle Wednesday afternoon, all day Thursday, all day Friday. 00:16:59.586 --> 00:17:00.626 A:middle You're exhausted when you're done. 00:17:00.666 --> 00:17:01.996 A:middle It's terrible, okay? 00:17:02.186 --> 00:17:04.226 A:middle And all you were allowed to bring was a pencil. 00:17:04.816 --> 00:17:06.156 A:middle No calculator, nothing. 00:17:06.416 --> 00:17:09.626 A:middle And it was a room, it was gymnasium at USD. 00:17:09.626 --> 00:17:11.196 A:middle They had it at the convention center here too. 00:17:11.576 --> 00:17:13.876 A:middle Just imagine a huge room of tables 00:17:14.136 --> 00:17:15.486 A:middle with people sitting with pencils. 00:17:16.216 --> 00:17:17.516 A:middle It's pretty intimidating. 00:17:17.636 --> 00:17:17.976 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:17:18.096 --> 00:17:19.846 A:middle >> Okay. So all day Wednesday afternoon, 00:17:20.426 --> 00:17:22.066 A:middle all day Thursday, all day Friday. 00:17:22.296 --> 00:17:23.866 A:middle Came home and collapsed Friday night. 00:17:24.436 --> 00:17:26.896 A:middle The pass rate was 2%. 00:17:27.016 --> 00:17:27.706 A:middle >> 2%? 00:17:28.056 --> 00:17:28.626 A:middle >> 2%. 00:17:28.626 --> 00:17:28.956 A:middle >> Oh my gosh. 00:17:28.956 --> 00:17:30.436 A:middle >> And I passed it all the first time. 00:17:31.106 --> 00:17:31.276 A:middle >> Wow. 00:17:31.276 --> 00:17:33.336 A:middle >> I was not going to do it again. 00:17:33.336 --> 00:17:33.616 A:middle Okay? 00:17:33.616 --> 00:17:33.696 A:middle >> Wow. 00:17:33.876 --> 00:17:35.356 A:middle >> And was there only one test? 00:17:35.356 --> 00:17:36.586 A:middle Or was it a series of tests? 00:17:36.586 --> 00:17:38.956 A:middle >> No, if you passed the first two parts, you would come back 00:17:38.956 --> 00:17:40.216 A:middle and take the other two parts. 00:17:40.266 --> 00:17:41.836 A:middle So four distinct parts. 00:17:42.486 --> 00:17:43.456 A:middle But you would come back. 00:17:44.176 --> 00:17:46.196 A:middle So it was very arduous. 00:17:46.796 --> 00:17:50.626 A:middle The CPA test today, bringing it forward, is done on computers. 00:17:51.196 --> 00:17:53.106 A:middle You go into a very secure testing room 00:17:53.316 --> 00:17:55.566 A:middle where you leave your wallet, your keys, your watch. 00:17:55.776 --> 00:17:57.056 A:middle They look at your glasses. 00:17:57.406 --> 00:17:58.536 A:middle In other words, really secure. 00:17:58.536 --> 00:17:59.386 A:middle You show your ID. 00:17:59.386 --> 00:18:00.266 A:middle I think you might even have 00:18:00.306 --> 00:18:02.536 A:middle to get fingerprinted in some of them. 00:18:03.236 --> 00:18:04.726 A:middle And then you take the test, 00:18:04.726 --> 00:18:06.346 A:middle but you only take one part at a time. 00:18:06.856 --> 00:18:10.756 A:middle And I believe right now it's one part every month. 00:18:11.106 --> 00:18:12.776 A:middle You can't take them four in a row like I did. 00:18:12.826 --> 00:18:13.656 A:middle >> Huh, wow. 00:18:13.656 --> 00:18:14.446 A:middle >> One part every month. 00:18:14.446 --> 00:18:17.376 A:middle And then they're graded, they're computer graded. 00:18:17.946 --> 00:18:19.176 A:middle And ours were all hand graded. 00:18:19.436 --> 00:18:21.446 A:middle >> Is the pass rate similar now? 00:18:21.446 --> 00:18:22.276 A:middle >> It's much higher. 00:18:22.386 --> 00:18:25.216 A:middle >> Okay. Now what kind of preparation did you do? 00:18:25.216 --> 00:18:27.556 A:middle I mean, the four years of schooling that led up to it. 00:18:27.556 --> 00:18:29.306 A:middle Or was there an intensive sort of program 00:18:29.306 --> 00:18:30.486 A:middle to prepare for taking that? 00:18:30.486 --> 00:18:31.376 A:middle >> That's a really good question. 00:18:31.376 --> 00:18:37.206 A:middle So because I was so focused on it, my last semester I took -- 00:18:37.546 --> 00:18:38.966 A:middle one of the classes is auditing. 00:18:38.966 --> 00:18:39.756 A:middle That's required. 00:18:40.156 --> 00:18:41.386 A:middle And then I also took a class 00:18:41.386 --> 00:18:43.116 A:middle that had a little bit of review in it. 00:18:43.116 --> 00:18:46.016 A:middle And I spent the entire spring break in the library. 00:18:46.166 --> 00:18:46.596 A:middle >> Okay. 00:18:46.786 --> 00:18:48.836 A:middle >> Okay? And the story in that -- a good story -- 00:18:49.076 --> 00:18:51.166 A:middle is every morning I get there at 9:00 00:18:51.166 --> 00:18:52.946 A:middle and I leave at 6:00 or 7:00. 00:18:52.946 --> 00:18:55.476 A:middle And I remember it was Friday and my parents were here 00:18:55.476 --> 00:18:56.486 A:middle and everybody was gone. 00:18:56.486 --> 00:18:57.106 A:middle It was just me. 00:18:57.106 --> 00:19:00.096 A:middle And I remember it was Friday at 10:00. 00:19:00.096 --> 00:19:01.176 A:middle I got there at 9:00. 00:19:01.176 --> 00:19:03.936 A:middle I looked out the window and said, "The heck with this." 00:19:03.936 --> 00:19:05.706 A:middle And I was on the beach by 10:30. 00:19:06.156 --> 00:19:07.466 A:middle Enough was enough. 00:19:07.626 --> 00:19:09.066 A:middle So yeah, you can overstudy. 00:19:09.066 --> 00:19:10.806 A:middle >> Right, you kind of hit your saturation. 00:19:10.866 --> 00:19:11.476 A:middle >> Yep, absolutely. 00:19:11.476 --> 00:19:14.016 A:middle And the other thing which I try to suggest to students 00:19:14.016 --> 00:19:16.956 A:middle but most don't listen, is don't study right before the test. 00:19:17.776 --> 00:19:20.316 A:middle If you don't know it the night before, you ain't gonna know it. 00:19:20.446 --> 00:19:20.766 A:middle >> Right. 00:19:20.766 --> 00:19:23.026 A:middle >> So I stopped studying about three or four days before. 00:19:23.026 --> 00:19:25.206 A:middle Then the middle of the night you have a thought like, "Oh my God, 00:19:25.206 --> 00:19:26.756 A:middle what about fill in the blank?" 00:19:27.236 --> 00:19:29.706 A:middle And then you wake up and you do it. 00:19:29.846 --> 00:19:32.816 A:middle But by not studying before it reduced the anxiety 00:19:32.816 --> 00:19:34.126 A:middle level significantly. 00:19:34.506 --> 00:19:36.066 A:middle And the other thing was during lunch -- 00:19:36.066 --> 00:19:36.936 A:middle because there were breaks -- 00:19:37.286 --> 00:19:41.056 A:middle all my friends and the other people taking tests would go 00:19:41.056 --> 00:19:43.386 A:middle around and talk about all the questions. 00:19:43.766 --> 00:19:44.576 A:middle I went to the park. 00:19:45.596 --> 00:19:46.876 A:middle Okay? Again, stay away. 00:19:46.876 --> 00:19:48.516 A:middle Don't stress yourself out. 00:19:48.866 --> 00:19:48.976 A:middle >> Right. 00:19:49.076 --> 00:19:51.116 A:middle >> Relax, come back, do your work. 00:19:51.446 --> 00:19:51.606 A:middle >> Right. 00:19:51.606 --> 00:19:53.166 A:middle >> Okay, I see too many students 00:19:53.276 --> 00:19:54.866 A:middle who are all stressed out before a test. 00:19:54.866 --> 00:19:55.146 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:19:55.336 --> 00:19:57.716 A:middle >> While I was coming, who happened 00:19:57.716 --> 00:19:59.916 A:middle to have an accounting test and they're studying it. 00:19:59.916 --> 00:20:00.976 A:middle And I shook my head saying, 00:20:00.976 --> 00:20:02.966 A:middle "If you don't know it ten minutes before the test, 00:20:03.356 --> 00:20:04.706 A:middle you're not going to know it on the test." 00:20:05.016 --> 00:20:07.426 A:middle >> So what kind of salary bump do you get with a CPA 00:20:07.426 --> 00:20:08.976 A:middle versus just an accounting degree? 00:20:10.106 --> 00:20:11.736 A:middle >> At the beginning, not much. 00:20:11.736 --> 00:20:14.166 A:middle At the beginning it's a few thousand dollars I believe. 00:20:14.166 --> 00:20:15.496 A:middle I can't answer that today. 00:20:16.076 --> 00:20:18.826 A:middle So anyway, so what happened was after I took the CPA exam 00:20:18.826 --> 00:20:22.616 A:middle or while I was in my senior year, you interview 00:20:22.616 --> 00:20:23.586 A:middle with accounting firms. 00:20:24.236 --> 00:20:26.826 A:middle Okay? Very much the same as it is now. 00:20:27.066 --> 00:20:30.596 A:middle Now they actually start in September and they hire 00:20:30.596 --> 00:20:31.506 A:middle for the following year. 00:20:31.716 --> 00:20:32.756 A:middle So they start very early. 00:20:32.936 --> 00:20:34.796 A:middle >> Oh, so they start a year early then? 00:20:34.796 --> 00:20:36.496 A:middle >> September for the following summer, yeah. 00:20:36.856 --> 00:20:37.086 A:middle >> Okay. 00:20:37.156 --> 00:20:39.026 A:middle >> Yeah, it's remarkable how early. 00:20:39.026 --> 00:20:44.516 A:middle They're all like -- it's kind of like the presidential primaries. 00:20:44.516 --> 00:20:45.936 A:middle As soon as one gets in front of the other, 00:20:45.936 --> 00:20:47.676 A:middle then somebody else gets in front of them. 00:20:47.676 --> 00:20:48.896 A:middle Pretty soon they'll be five years early. 00:20:48.896 --> 00:20:49.256 A:middle I don't know. 00:20:49.496 --> 00:20:53.686 A:middle But anyway, so they start now and they started to interview. 00:20:53.686 --> 00:20:54.976 A:middle I want to various interviews. 00:20:57.096 --> 00:20:58.356 A:middle I had to cut my hair. 00:20:58.356 --> 00:21:01.726 A:middle I had very long hair down to my shoulders, believe it or not. 00:21:01.726 --> 00:21:02.516 A:middle Now I have none. 00:21:02.746 --> 00:21:05.266 A:middle But I was pretty -- I remember looking in the mirror 00:21:05.476 --> 00:21:08.866 A:middle with my three-piece suit and my short hair and thinking, "Geez, 00:21:08.916 --> 00:21:09.866 A:middle you really have conformed." 00:21:10.706 --> 00:21:11.906 A:middle But accounting's very conservative 00:21:11.906 --> 00:21:12.506 A:middle so you had to do that. 00:21:12.506 --> 00:21:12.736 A:middle >> Sure. 00:21:12.736 --> 00:21:14.626 A:middle >> And to this day you have to watch out, you know, 00:21:14.686 --> 00:21:15.706 A:middle who you're interviewing for. 00:21:15.896 --> 00:21:16.056 A:middle >> Right. 00:21:16.056 --> 00:21:18.316 A:middle >> So I knew what the market was. 00:21:18.316 --> 00:21:21.416 A:middle We go in the little tiny room, they ask their questions. 00:21:21.446 --> 00:21:23.836 A:middle Some of the interviews were okay. 00:21:24.086 --> 00:21:27.666 A:middle One of them I woke up my -- 00:21:27.876 --> 00:21:30.466 A:middle let's say the interview was at 3:00 and I woke 00:21:30.466 --> 00:21:32.366 A:middle up at 2:00 saying, "Oh, plenty of time." 00:21:32.366 --> 00:21:34.076 A:middle But there was no power in my apartment. 00:21:34.536 --> 00:21:37.016 A:middle My roommate forgot to pay the electric bill. 00:21:37.706 --> 00:21:39.036 A:middle So I ran, I took a shower 00:21:39.036 --> 00:21:40.286 A:middle because I played softball before. 00:21:40.286 --> 00:21:40.896 A:middle I remember that. 00:21:41.186 --> 00:21:43.546 A:middle Took a shower, got there like three minutes to 3:00. 00:21:44.126 --> 00:21:45.096 A:middle Did not get that job. 00:21:45.396 --> 00:21:47.306 A:middle In other words, they don't all go well. 00:21:47.636 --> 00:21:47.786 A:middle >> Right. 00:21:47.786 --> 00:21:48.896 A:middle >> But the one I did get was 00:21:48.896 --> 00:21:50.526 A:middle with a firm called Arthur Anderson. 00:21:50.526 --> 00:21:52.726 A:middle It was between them and what was then Price Waterhouse 00:21:52.726 --> 00:21:54.636 A:middle which were the two biggest firms at the time. 00:21:55.126 --> 00:21:58.316 A:middle And I just got along very well with the partner. 00:21:58.526 --> 00:22:00.876 A:middle I actually was sitting at a desk and there were a bunch 00:22:00.876 --> 00:22:02.216 A:middle of brochures in front of the desk. 00:22:02.586 --> 00:22:03.806 A:middle This is instructive also. 00:22:04.206 --> 00:22:05.326 A:middle And I talk with my hands. 00:22:05.476 --> 00:22:06.766 A:middle And within the first two minutes, 00:22:06.946 --> 00:22:08.476 A:middle I knocked all the brochures on the floor. 00:22:10.046 --> 00:22:11.756 A:middle And I was leaning over, picking up the brochures. 00:22:11.756 --> 00:22:13.716 A:middle I looked at the guy and I said without even thinking, 00:22:13.716 --> 00:22:14.916 A:middle I said, "Don't mind me. 00:22:15.116 --> 00:22:16.096 A:middle I'm just a klutz." 00:22:16.646 --> 00:22:18.736 A:middle At that moment, I knew I had the job. 00:22:19.186 --> 00:22:20.766 A:middle In other words, we made the connection. 00:22:20.906 --> 00:22:21.086 A:middle >> Sure. 00:22:21.086 --> 00:22:21.416 A:middle >> Right. 00:22:21.626 --> 00:22:23.726 A:middle >> So Arthur Anderson, they recruited 00:22:23.726 --> 00:22:24.986 A:middle from San Diego State back then? 00:22:24.986 --> 00:22:26.996 A:middle >> All the big firms recruited from San Diego State. 00:22:26.996 --> 00:22:27.106 A:middle >> Okay. 00:22:27.106 --> 00:22:28.466 A:middle >> San Jose State was a very, very, 00:22:28.466 --> 00:22:29.686 A:middle very good accounting school. 00:22:29.686 --> 00:22:31.606 A:middle >> I was talking to my sister who -- 00:22:31.606 --> 00:22:33.236 A:middle she was also at Arthur Anderson. 00:22:33.656 --> 00:22:37.386 A:middle She left right I think a month before the Enron. 00:22:37.826 --> 00:22:39.956 A:middle So she actually went to Disney, got a big bump, 00:22:40.306 --> 00:22:43.276 A:middle and then a month later her whole team got fired because of Enron. 00:22:46.046 --> 00:22:47.956 A:middle So when she was telling me that Arthur Anderson 00:22:47.956 --> 00:22:50.336 A:middle in this area only interviews -- 00:22:51.346 --> 00:22:54.306 A:middle or I guess the big four only interview at USC and UCLA. 00:22:54.576 --> 00:22:55.826 A:middle >> No, that's not true. 00:22:56.056 --> 00:22:57.076 A:middle >> That's not true at all? 00:22:57.076 --> 00:22:58.676 A:middle >> Today, no, absolutely not. 00:22:58.676 --> 00:23:00.446 A:middle I know they're at CSUN, they're UCSB. 00:23:00.986 --> 00:23:02.836 A:middle I'm pretty sure they're at Fullerton. 00:23:02.836 --> 00:23:03.936 A:middle I know they're at Cal State LA. 00:23:03.936 --> 00:23:04.746 A:middle No, absolutely not. 00:23:04.996 --> 00:23:05.136 A:middle >> Okay. 00:23:05.266 --> 00:23:06.166 A:middle >> They interview everywhere. 00:23:06.846 --> 00:23:08.896 A:middle Yeah, Pepperdine -- Pepperdine, not so much. 00:23:09.266 --> 00:23:09.906 A:middle No, they interview everywhere. 00:23:11.256 --> 00:23:13.616 A:middle So anyway, so I went to work for Arthur Anderson. 00:23:13.946 --> 00:23:18.246 A:middle I was at San Diego State and I went to work 00:23:18.246 --> 00:23:20.316 A:middle in their Orange County office. 00:23:20.776 --> 00:23:23.406 A:middle Okay? Now it's important to know that I knew 00:23:23.526 --> 00:23:27.596 A:middle from probably my second year at San Diego State I was going 00:23:27.596 --> 00:23:28.616 A:middle to have my own business. 00:23:29.186 --> 00:23:31.726 A:middle Okay? This is the entrepreneur in me. 00:23:31.726 --> 00:23:33.616 A:middle I'm a businessman as well as an accountant. 00:23:33.666 --> 00:23:34.836 A:middle I knew I was going to have my own business. 00:23:35.076 --> 00:23:35.156 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:23:35.156 --> 00:23:37.846 A:middle >> So this was you have to work -- now it's one or two. 00:23:37.846 --> 00:23:40.046 A:middle Then it was two years to get your CPA. 00:23:40.216 --> 00:23:42.376 A:middle So I worked two years for Arthur Anderson. 00:23:42.756 --> 00:23:46.086 A:middle Not my favorite two years, very frankly because I knew 00:23:46.616 --> 00:23:48.756 A:middle that I was going to get out of there. 00:23:48.856 --> 00:23:49.136 A:middle >> Sure. 00:23:49.136 --> 00:23:51.166 A:middle >> The one thing that I learned while I was 00:23:51.166 --> 00:23:53.616 A:middle at Arthur Anderson was how to document my work. 00:23:53.966 --> 00:23:54.296 A:middle >> Okay. 00:23:54.296 --> 00:23:57.696 A:middle >> We were sent to St. Charles in Illinois 00:23:58.116 --> 00:23:59.356 A:middle for two weeks of training. 00:23:59.566 --> 00:24:01.016 A:middle And you got a score from one to five. 00:24:01.816 --> 00:24:05.156 A:middle And I came back with a five, and I was the second person ever 00:24:05.156 --> 00:24:06.286 A:middle in that office to get a five. 00:24:06.326 --> 00:24:07.906 A:middle The other one was a guy from Columbia. 00:24:08.346 --> 00:24:08.436 A:middle >> Wow. 00:24:08.646 --> 00:24:10.886 A:middle >> So I was already the superstar walking in. 00:24:10.886 --> 00:24:10.976 A:middle >> Right. 00:24:11.536 --> 00:24:13.966 A:middle >> But I didn't care because I knew I was leaving in two years. 00:24:13.966 --> 00:24:14.186 A:middle >> Right. 00:24:14.276 --> 00:24:15.556 A:middle >> So it was kind of a dichotomy. 00:24:15.556 --> 00:24:18.256 A:middle They expected a lot and my expectation was I'm going 00:24:18.256 --> 00:24:19.596 A:middle to do the work and get out of here. 00:24:19.776 --> 00:24:21.626 A:middle >> And what level were you when you left? 00:24:24.086 --> 00:24:25.006 A:middle >> An accountant. 00:24:25.216 --> 00:24:26.046 A:middle >> Accountant. 00:24:26.046 --> 00:24:26.156 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:24:26.156 --> 00:24:27.996 A:middle >> So you weren't trying to get to a manager? 00:24:27.996 --> 00:24:28.586 A:middle >> Oh, no. 00:24:28.586 --> 00:24:30.336 A:middle No, in two years you ain't going to get the manager. 00:24:30.706 --> 00:24:32.456 A:middle No, I could have barely made it to senior. 00:24:33.056 --> 00:24:35.776 A:middle But I was in charge of some jobs, 00:24:36.136 --> 00:24:39.626 A:middle but it was not my career goal, very frankly. 00:24:39.896 --> 00:24:43.016 A:middle There were others who had their career goals very obvious. 00:24:43.066 --> 00:24:44.786 A:middle So the Orange County office was small. 00:24:45.116 --> 00:24:47.566 A:middle The reason I liked it there was compared 00:24:47.566 --> 00:24:49.966 A:middle to for example Price Waterhouse interviewed me up here. 00:24:50.366 --> 00:24:51.816 A:middle And they did like the academy awards. 00:24:51.816 --> 00:24:52.786 A:middle It was very glitzy. 00:24:53.396 --> 00:24:56.866 A:middle One guy from Columbia, one guy from Harvard, 00:24:56.866 --> 00:24:57.926 A:middle one guy from Stanford. 00:24:58.226 --> 00:24:59.136 A:middle San Diego State. 00:24:59.336 --> 00:25:00.136 A:middle I knew I wouldn't fit in. 00:25:00.916 --> 00:25:02.366 A:middle Okay? Orange County was small. 00:25:02.366 --> 00:25:02.926 A:middle We fit in. 00:25:03.156 --> 00:25:05.616 A:middle I was interested in small businesses, hint, hint, 00:25:05.616 --> 00:25:08.076 A:middle hint because that was my ultimate goal. 00:25:08.306 --> 00:25:08.526 A:middle >> Right. 00:25:08.526 --> 00:25:10.886 A:middle >> So I was able to audit many small businesses. 00:25:11.036 --> 00:25:13.276 A:middle I remember doing taxes for a couple of the people there. 00:25:13.656 --> 00:25:16.056 A:middle Not that I was that good or really knew what I was doing 00:25:16.056 --> 00:25:18.686 A:middle that well, but it was preparing me for the future. 00:25:19.536 --> 00:25:21.106 A:middle >> Now let me just ask a question here. 00:25:21.266 --> 00:25:21.396 A:middle >> Sure. 00:25:21.866 --> 00:25:23.216 A:middle >> So you said that you had to have two years 00:25:23.216 --> 00:25:25.406 A:middle of work before getting your CPA? 00:25:25.716 --> 00:25:28.646 A:middle >> Yes, you have to work two years in accounting generally 00:25:28.646 --> 00:25:30.736 A:middle for a CPA to get the certificate. 00:25:30.736 --> 00:25:33.736 A:middle >> Okay. So you first have to pass that test to even sort 00:25:33.736 --> 00:25:34.496 A:middle of put you on the track? 00:25:34.496 --> 00:25:36.956 A:middle >> No, you can be working and pass the test. 00:25:36.956 --> 00:25:37.136 A:middle >> Okay. 00:25:37.266 --> 00:25:39.836 A:middle >> Or you can work and then pass the test 30 years later. 00:25:40.186 --> 00:25:40.436 A:middle >> Okay. 00:25:40.486 --> 00:25:42.166 A:middle >> You have to have the two years' experience. 00:25:42.166 --> 00:25:42.936 A:middle >> The two things together, the test 00:25:42.936 --> 00:25:43.936 A:middle and the two years' experience. 00:25:43.936 --> 00:25:46.516 A:middle >> Yes. And it's actually one year if you don't want to audit 00:25:46.516 --> 00:25:47.446 A:middle and two years if you want to audit. 00:25:47.446 --> 00:25:48.906 A:middle I tell everybody just do the two years. 00:25:49.056 --> 00:25:49.236 A:middle >> Okay. 00:25:49.486 --> 00:25:50.616 A:middle >> That opens up everything. 00:25:50.706 --> 00:25:54.286 A:middle >> And then what doors did the CPA open up for you? 00:25:54.456 --> 00:25:57.236 A:middle >> Oh my God, well, so when I left there, 00:25:57.666 --> 00:26:00.056 A:middle I opened my business. 00:26:00.056 --> 00:26:02.446 A:middle I had an apartment in Tarzana, 00:26:02.726 --> 00:26:04.946 A:middle literally my office was a desk in the corner. 00:26:05.596 --> 00:26:08.886 A:middle My first file cabinet was a milk carton, a milk crate. 00:26:08.886 --> 00:26:09.796 A:middle I'm sorry, a milk crate. 00:26:10.326 --> 00:26:11.556 A:middle It's the perfect size. 00:26:11.556 --> 00:26:12.896 A:middle It holds files. 00:26:12.896 --> 00:26:13.086 A:middle >> Right. 00:26:13.086 --> 00:26:15.596 A:middle >> It can hold legal size and letter size. 00:26:15.596 --> 00:26:17.426 A:middle So I made for a file cabinet. 00:26:17.686 --> 00:26:18.646 A:middle So it was in my corner. 00:26:18.646 --> 00:26:19.966 A:middle My first client was my father. 00:26:20.676 --> 00:26:21.086 A:middle >> Okay. 00:26:21.326 --> 00:26:24.366 A:middle >> Okay, and then we knew somebody else and somebody else. 00:26:24.606 --> 00:26:28.966 A:middle The CPA was important to have a CPA firm. 00:26:29.236 --> 00:26:30.186 A:middle You have to be a CPA. 00:26:30.676 --> 00:26:33.566 A:middle The name Arthur Anderson though, that opened up the doors. 00:26:33.566 --> 00:26:37.756 A:middle I had asked the partner from Orange County to talk 00:26:37.756 --> 00:26:38.936 A:middle to somebody in Los Angeles. 00:26:39.196 --> 00:26:41.176 A:middle He set me up with somebody else 00:26:41.176 --> 00:26:43.946 A:middle that then became my first nonprofit client. 00:26:43.946 --> 00:26:48.036 A:middle It was actually the attorney general John Vandercamp's wife 00:26:48.036 --> 00:26:50.616 A:middle Ranet who to this day I'm friends with. 00:26:51.106 --> 00:26:54.536 A:middle And that became my first nonprofit. 00:26:54.806 --> 00:26:56.806 A:middle They then told others, they then told others 00:26:56.966 --> 00:26:58.756 A:middle and that was how I built my business. 00:26:58.966 --> 00:27:02.966 A:middle But having the CPA from the first year was the key. 00:27:03.206 --> 00:27:06.186 A:middle If I was just some punk 22-year-old who like, you know, 00:27:06.186 --> 00:27:08.736 A:middle showed up at your door, they wouldn't have done it. 00:27:08.736 --> 00:27:11.606 A:middle But a punk 22-year-old who had the CPA experience 00:27:11.606 --> 00:27:14.326 A:middle from the large firm, that was what opened the doors. 00:27:14.546 --> 00:27:15.246 A:middle >> Is there still 00:27:15.246 --> 00:27:19.376 A:middle that entrepreneurial opportunity you think today, if you went, 00:27:19.376 --> 00:27:21.816 A:middle got your CPA, worked two years at a big four 00:27:21.966 --> 00:27:22.976 A:middle and then opened up a shingle? 00:27:22.976 --> 00:27:24.556 A:middle Do you think that's still available? 00:27:24.556 --> 00:27:25.706 A:middle Or is it too competitive now? 00:27:27.096 --> 00:27:27.986 A:middle >> I think it's available. 00:27:28.276 --> 00:27:31.566 A:middle I don't know what kind of fool I was to do it. 00:27:31.566 --> 00:27:32.926 A:middle Okay? There was never any question 00:27:32.926 --> 00:27:34.066 A:middle in my mind it was going to work. 00:27:34.266 --> 00:27:37.176 A:middle Never. But looking back, it's like why did I even think that? 00:27:37.836 --> 00:27:40.456 A:middle So I think you have to have the right kind of frame of mind. 00:27:40.456 --> 00:27:43.986 A:middle If you have a family and you need the paycheck, forget it. 00:27:43.986 --> 00:27:44.606 A:middle It ain't going to work. 00:27:45.076 --> 00:27:47.536 A:middle Okay, even if you have a spouse that's not totally supportive, 00:27:47.936 --> 00:27:48.636 A:middle it ain't going to work. 00:27:49.286 --> 00:27:53.486 A:middle If you have a background and you can have a foot in the door 00:27:53.866 --> 00:27:58.886 A:middle and you have the drive and the want to do it, you probably can 00:27:58.886 --> 00:28:00.126 A:middle but it's not going to be overnight. 00:28:00.426 --> 00:28:03.226 A:middle It took me many, many years to build it up and build up. 00:28:03.226 --> 00:28:06.846 A:middle I got my first office a year after I started 00:28:07.636 --> 00:28:09.756 A:middle because I got married and I told my wife, 00:28:09.756 --> 00:28:10.836 A:middle "I'll never work at home ever." 00:28:11.186 --> 00:28:12.956 A:middle Because I just don't believe that -- 00:28:12.956 --> 00:28:14.386 A:middle I think you should have a separation. 00:28:14.386 --> 00:28:16.466 A:middle So it took me a year to get that office. 00:28:16.466 --> 00:28:19.876 A:middle It was about -- I was thinking about 425 square feet. 00:28:20.116 --> 00:28:21.716 A:middle It was tiny, okay? 00:28:21.716 --> 00:28:24.126 A:middle And there were a couple of desks but it worked for a couple 00:28:24.126 --> 00:28:26.016 A:middle of years and then I got another office 00:28:26.016 --> 00:28:27.816 A:middle and started building staff and things like that. 00:28:28.116 --> 00:28:31.226 A:middle But the point is that unless you believe that you can succeed 00:28:31.806 --> 00:28:36.656 A:middle and you have the means to do it, and the support, very frankly, 00:28:37.536 --> 00:28:38.366 A:middle don't even think about it. 00:28:38.496 --> 00:28:42.006 A:middle >> So what trait do you think was most important in building 00:28:42.006 --> 00:28:44.366 A:middle that -- building that business? 00:28:44.366 --> 00:28:45.536 A:middle Are you great at selling? 00:28:45.536 --> 00:28:48.536 A:middle Or what is it that sets you apart, do you think? 00:28:50.046 --> 00:28:54.956 A:middle >> Doing what I'm asked to do on a timely fashion. 00:28:55.746 --> 00:28:58.536 A:middle Doing quality work and doing it on time. 00:28:59.106 --> 00:29:03.076 A:middle My clients to the day I sold the business -- 00:29:03.366 --> 00:29:04.886 A:middle if you bring me your taxes on Tuesday, 00:29:04.886 --> 00:29:05.906 A:middle they're going to be done by Friday. 00:29:06.856 --> 00:29:09.266 A:middle If you bring me your financial, the stuff for financials, 00:29:09.266 --> 00:29:10.116 A:middle they're going to be done. 00:29:10.436 --> 00:29:12.666 A:middle Now part of that is for the quality. 00:29:12.996 --> 00:29:15.026 A:middle Part of it is because timeliness is really important. 00:29:15.336 --> 00:29:17.086 A:middle But very frankly, when I first started 00:29:17.086 --> 00:29:18.446 A:middle in business I needed the money. 00:29:18.596 --> 00:29:20.176 A:middle So I wanted to bill them. 00:29:20.546 --> 00:29:20.676 A:middle >> Right. 00:29:20.676 --> 00:29:22.526 A:middle >> So it wasn't that I was going to wait. 00:29:22.696 --> 00:29:24.216 A:middle It's like, "Give me the money. 00:29:24.216 --> 00:29:25.376 A:middle You know, I need to pay my bills." 00:29:25.376 --> 00:29:28.256 A:middle So it was engrained in me to bill right away. 00:29:28.716 --> 00:29:29.556 A:middle And how do you bill? 00:29:29.686 --> 00:29:30.486 A:middle You complete the work. 00:29:30.936 --> 00:29:31.756 A:middle How do you complete the work? 00:29:31.826 --> 00:29:33.076 A:middle You do it quickly and on time. 00:29:33.646 --> 00:29:35.856 A:middle So this was part of my personality. 00:29:36.136 --> 00:29:40.356 A:middle Secondly was I learned -- again, through my experience 00:29:40.356 --> 00:29:42.156 A:middle at San Diego State -- how to deal with people. 00:29:42.806 --> 00:29:44.036 A:middle How to talk to people. 00:29:44.036 --> 00:29:45.156 A:middle I'm a very good listener. 00:29:45.156 --> 00:29:48.356 A:middle How to listen to them, how not to tell them what to do, 00:29:49.276 --> 00:29:51.596 A:middle but how to help them make the decisions. 00:29:52.076 --> 00:29:54.406 A:middle And that's very -- those would be the criteria 00:29:54.686 --> 00:29:57.436 A:middle that helped me build the business. 00:29:57.436 --> 00:29:59.406 A:middle And thirdly, I was told my whole life 00:29:59.406 --> 00:30:00.756 A:middle that I'm not the typical accountant. 00:30:01.116 --> 00:30:03.096 A:middle They say, "You are so different than the rest." 00:30:03.096 --> 00:30:05.926 A:middle Because of that business sense and the way of dealing 00:30:05.926 --> 00:30:08.136 A:middle with people and understanding how they are. 00:30:09.516 --> 00:30:11.546 A:middle [ Inaudible ] 00:30:12.046 --> 00:30:13.606 A:middle In my type of business, yes, 00:30:13.606 --> 00:30:17.156 A:middle my business was primarily charities, nonprofits. 00:30:17.156 --> 00:30:19.176 A:middle About 70% were nonprofits. 00:30:19.176 --> 00:30:22.056 A:middle 30% were like doctors and individuals, stuff like that. 00:30:22.646 --> 00:30:25.836 A:middle And those nonprofits are a different breed, okay? 00:30:25.986 --> 00:30:27.786 A:middle They don't necessarily understand what's going on, 00:30:28.306 --> 00:30:30.076 A:middle but they understand they have to pay their bills, 00:30:30.456 --> 00:30:31.716 A:middle you have to know how to talk to them. 00:30:31.756 --> 00:30:33.516 A:middle You have to know how to talk to a board of directors. 00:30:33.516 --> 00:30:36.596 A:middle I made countless board of directors presentations. 00:30:36.696 --> 00:30:40.066 A:middle Know how to present stuff in an easy to read, 00:30:40.066 --> 00:30:43.226 A:middle easy to understand way that's relevant. 00:30:43.726 --> 00:30:45.076 A:middle Okay? And that's a skill. 00:30:45.076 --> 00:30:46.706 A:middle That's no something that's done -- 00:30:47.016 --> 00:30:51.316 A:middle to this day when I hear most board of director presentations 00:30:51.316 --> 00:30:52.616 A:middle from accountants, I shudder. 00:30:53.156 --> 00:30:55.766 A:middle And if I'm sitting there, they have to explain it in English. 00:30:55.936 --> 00:30:56.086 A:middle >> Right. 00:30:56.086 --> 00:30:57.776 A:middle >> So it's just a way of communicating, 00:30:58.066 --> 00:31:04.426 A:middle >> Right. So your business, you sort of outlined the growth 00:31:04.426 --> 00:31:07.816 A:middle from your apartment to the first office to sort 00:31:07.816 --> 00:31:10.056 A:middle of the next office, acquiring staff. 00:31:10.526 --> 00:31:11.766 A:middle What's happening after that? 00:31:11.766 --> 00:31:11.976 A:middle >> Okay. 00:31:11.976 --> 00:31:13.866 A:middle >> You're married now. 00:31:13.866 --> 00:31:16.856 A:middle >> Yeah. So part of the business building was, 00:31:16.856 --> 00:31:17.896 A:middle how do I get clients? 00:31:18.346 --> 00:31:22.026 A:middle Okay, the first summer, man did I have a nice tan. 00:31:22.026 --> 00:31:23.476 A:middle Because I'd go down to the pool all the time. 00:31:23.766 --> 00:31:25.096 A:middle I pay for it now, of course. 00:31:25.356 --> 00:31:26.766 A:middle But I had a nice tan. 00:31:26.966 --> 00:31:28.136 A:middle So I said, "How do I get clients?" 00:31:28.136 --> 00:31:29.356 A:middle And I thought, well, maybe people come 00:31:29.356 --> 00:31:32.676 A:middle to the community college because they have a business. 00:31:33.036 --> 00:31:35.026 A:middle They have a business and they need an accountant. 00:31:35.346 --> 00:31:35.986 A:middle Here I am. 00:31:36.736 --> 00:31:38.596 A:middle So I applied to both Pierce and Valley. 00:31:39.596 --> 00:31:41.936 A:middle They both asked -- but Valley happened to ask first. 00:31:42.546 --> 00:31:43.986 A:middle So I started teaching. 00:31:43.986 --> 00:31:46.546 A:middle It was then accounting one which is the first half 00:31:46.546 --> 00:31:48.216 A:middle of accounting, one night a week. 00:31:48.906 --> 00:31:49.666 A:middle Just one night a week. 00:31:50.026 --> 00:31:51.626 A:middle And I came here and started teaching. 00:31:52.266 --> 00:31:55.906 A:middle And I was 23 at the time, so most of the students were older 00:31:55.906 --> 00:31:56.776 A:middle and much older than me. 00:31:58.636 --> 00:32:01.066 A:middle And I found out that that theory could not be more wrong. 00:32:02.196 --> 00:32:02.966 A:middle I was so wrong. 00:32:03.446 --> 00:32:06.326 A:middle People don't come to the community college for accounting 00:32:06.766 --> 00:32:07.676 A:middle because they want a degree. 00:32:07.936 --> 00:32:08.706 A:middle Now many do. 00:32:09.016 --> 00:32:09.276 A:middle >> Right. 00:32:09.276 --> 00:32:10.656 A:middle >> Okay, but especially at night they don't. 00:32:11.156 --> 00:32:11.246 A:middle >> Right. 00:32:11.246 --> 00:32:13.276 A:middle >> At night they come mostly because, believe it or not, 00:32:13.276 --> 00:32:16.146 A:middle they're doing the work and they have no idea what they're doing. 00:32:16.836 --> 00:32:18.656 A:middle Okay? They're typing or they're entering stuff. 00:32:18.656 --> 00:32:19.276 A:middle They don't know why. 00:32:20.076 --> 00:32:23.406 A:middle Another percentage, a large percentage was they wanted 00:32:23.406 --> 00:32:24.646 A:middle another job and they heard 00:32:24.646 --> 00:32:26.196 A:middle that they can make money in accounting. 00:32:26.546 --> 00:32:30.346 A:middle And then a smaller percentage was to get a degree or advance, 00:32:30.346 --> 00:32:31.366 A:middle but that was a small percent. 00:32:32.156 --> 00:32:36.466 A:middle So I found out that coming there one night a week was kind 00:32:36.466 --> 00:32:40.096 A:middle of cool, because you work all day, you come -- 00:32:40.196 --> 00:32:42.686 A:middle as you guys know when you speak in front of a class, 00:32:42.956 --> 00:32:45.096 A:middle if there's anything on your mind, tough. 00:32:45.396 --> 00:32:45.726 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:32:45.986 --> 00:32:47.956 A:middle >> You've got to be right in front of them. 00:32:47.956 --> 00:32:49.636 A:middle So leaving was almost like therapy. 00:32:49.936 --> 00:32:50.336 A:middle >> Right. 00:32:50.336 --> 00:32:53.606 A:middle >> So I would do this and I did it and kept 00:32:53.606 --> 00:32:55.856 A:middle on going for many years. 00:32:56.086 --> 00:32:58.946 A:middle >> And was that your first sort of foray into teaching? 00:32:59.306 --> 00:33:00.356 A:middle >> Believe it or not, yeah. 00:33:00.626 --> 00:33:00.906 A:middle >> Okay. 00:33:01.116 --> 00:33:01.276 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:33:01.536 --> 00:33:04.886 A:middle >> And you felt that, hey, I like this? 00:33:04.996 --> 00:33:06.506 A:middle This resonates with me. 00:33:06.506 --> 00:33:07.686 A:middle >> It happened to work out. 00:33:07.686 --> 00:33:07.896 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:33:08.136 --> 00:33:11.836 A:middle >> Yeah. And I was close enough to have taken it. 00:33:11.946 --> 00:33:12.206 A:middle >> Right. 00:33:12.206 --> 00:33:13.456 A:middle >> That it wasn't difficult. 00:33:13.456 --> 00:33:16.646 A:middle I used many techniques from the teachers that I had had, 00:33:17.286 --> 00:33:18.536 A:middle which I still use today, by the way. 00:33:19.396 --> 00:33:20.396 A:middle I've just changed the names. 00:33:20.526 --> 00:33:20.666 A:middle >> Right. 00:33:20.666 --> 00:33:23.636 A:middle >> But some of those techniques were very powerful then 00:33:23.996 --> 00:33:27.576 A:middle and they haven't changed a lot till today. 00:33:27.656 --> 00:33:30.836 A:middle >> So how did you balance both careers? 00:33:30.836 --> 00:33:32.386 A:middle I guess right now, which one is your priority 00:33:32.386 --> 00:33:34.706 A:middle and how did you come to that decision? 00:33:34.836 --> 00:33:38.446 A:middle >> So the teaching was just a side gig, okay? 00:33:38.446 --> 00:33:39.736 A:middle Teaching was just coming and doing it. 00:33:40.036 --> 00:33:44.736 A:middle The way I describe it was my office was my car. 00:33:44.946 --> 00:33:49.296 A:middle Drive here -- I didn't even know where the campus was, what else. 00:33:49.296 --> 00:33:50.406 A:middle Because I was in the Bungalow -- 00:33:50.406 --> 00:33:52.576 A:middle Bungalow Five which would be destroyed very soon. 00:33:52.576 --> 00:33:52.666 A:middle >> Right. 00:33:52.746 --> 00:33:56.016 A:middle >> I was in the Bungalow, go walk to my car to the Bungalow. 00:33:56.016 --> 00:33:57.676 A:middle Sometimes I'd go to Repro Graphics, 00:33:57.706 --> 00:33:59.146 A:middle pick up the stuff, walk back. 00:33:59.466 --> 00:33:59.986 A:middle That was it. 00:34:00.706 --> 00:34:02.416 A:middle So we'll fast forward. 00:34:05.046 --> 00:34:08.396 A:middle A number of years ago they had an opportunity 00:34:08.396 --> 00:34:10.556 A:middle to teach a day class, an accounting two class 00:34:10.556 --> 00:34:13.336 A:middle which is managerial accounting. 00:34:14.686 --> 00:34:17.766 A:middle And they asked me to teach it and I said, "Yeah, why not? 00:34:17.766 --> 00:34:19.756 A:middle I can take a couple afternoons off. 00:34:19.756 --> 00:34:20.326 A:middle It might be fun." 00:34:20.796 --> 00:34:22.736 A:middle So I started coming here and I found 00:34:22.736 --> 00:34:24.896 A:middle out that I was really relating to the students, 00:34:25.756 --> 00:34:27.216 A:middle and that it was working. 00:34:28.406 --> 00:34:30.156 A:middle So I did that for a couple of semesters 00:34:30.156 --> 00:34:31.766 A:middle and then they had a full-time opening. 00:34:32.916 --> 00:34:34.176 A:middle And I thought, "What the heck? 00:34:34.576 --> 00:34:35.106 A:middle I'll apply. 00:34:35.196 --> 00:34:36.886 A:middle What can they do, say no? 00:34:36.886 --> 00:34:38.036 A:middle I've still got my job." 00:34:38.726 --> 00:34:41.706 A:middle And this is instructive also about interviewing. 00:34:42.196 --> 00:34:45.456 A:middle So when I interviewed, the first interview was -- 00:34:45.726 --> 00:34:48.746 A:middle it's in a group interview and that went fine. 00:34:49.796 --> 00:34:51.036 A:middle Then you meet with the president. 00:34:51.636 --> 00:34:54.146 A:middle And the president said, "You know, we've hired a lot 00:34:54.146 --> 00:34:57.616 A:middle of accountants here, and sometimes we have to let them go 00:34:57.616 --> 00:34:59.786 A:middle because they still have their other job and this." 00:34:59.986 --> 00:35:02.096 A:middle She said, "How do I know that you're committed to this?" 00:35:02.876 --> 00:35:05.576 A:middle And I told her, I said, "Look, it's like 105 outside. 00:35:05.776 --> 00:35:06.896 A:middle I'm wearing a suit and tie. 00:35:07.236 --> 00:35:08.346 A:middle If that doesn't say I'm committed, 00:35:08.466 --> 00:35:09.946 A:middle I don't know what does." 00:35:10.016 --> 00:35:11.046 A:middle [ Laughter ] 00:35:11.046 --> 00:35:12.556 A:middle In other words, always have something at the back 00:35:12.556 --> 00:35:14.906 A:middle of your mind in these interviews that you can, you know, 00:35:14.906 --> 00:35:16.156 A:middle use when you expect to. 00:35:16.156 --> 00:35:17.726 A:middle >> Right, right. 00:35:17.726 --> 00:35:19.176 A:middle >> So they hired me full-time. 00:35:19.546 --> 00:35:23.076 A:middle I then was working full-time here 00:35:23.076 --> 00:35:25.146 A:middle and had the accounting firm. 00:35:25.676 --> 00:35:28.596 A:middle And I will share with you guys, never have two full-time jobs. 00:35:29.326 --> 00:35:31.636 A:middle It's ridiculously tiring at any age. 00:35:31.636 --> 00:35:31.726 A:middle >> Right. 00:35:32.116 --> 00:35:33.426 A:middle >> So I sold the accounting firm 00:35:33.426 --> 00:35:35.486 A:middle and now I'm just doing this full-time. 00:35:35.756 --> 00:35:37.646 A:middle >> So at that time how many employees did you have? 00:35:37.986 --> 00:35:40.246 A:middle >> I never had more than two employees, ever. 00:35:40.796 --> 00:35:42.236 A:middle Because when you have more than two employees, 00:35:42.236 --> 00:35:43.856 A:middle then you start forming alliances. 00:35:44.446 --> 00:35:46.416 A:middle Okay, it's two against one all the time. 00:35:46.826 --> 00:35:48.546 A:middle So I made sure I never had more than two employees. 00:35:49.086 --> 00:35:50.626 A:middle And we were very efficient. 00:35:52.186 --> 00:35:53.466 A:middle >> So what were the jobs of the employees? 00:35:53.466 --> 00:35:55.206 A:middle Was it a secretary or assistant? 00:35:55.206 --> 00:35:56.026 A:middle >> Oh no, they're bookkeeping. 00:35:56.216 --> 00:35:56.686 A:middle >> They're bookkeeping? 00:35:56.796 --> 00:35:58.196 A:middle >> Well, everybody did everything. 00:35:58.196 --> 00:36:00.456 A:middle I did the tax stuff mostly. 00:36:00.456 --> 00:36:02.326 A:middle I could do their job, they could do part -- 00:36:02.326 --> 00:36:04.056 A:middle not all of my job, but part of my job. 00:36:04.366 --> 00:36:07.806 A:middle It was mostly bookkeeping, stuff that we teach in accounting one. 00:36:07.986 --> 00:36:10.756 A:middle I tell my accounting one students they could work 00:36:10.756 --> 00:36:12.766 A:middle in an accounting firm when they're done. 00:36:12.766 --> 00:36:15.686 A:middle Okay? These guys did all the stuff -- 00:36:15.686 --> 00:36:18.056 A:middle in fact, one of them I hired from high school, 00:36:18.056 --> 00:36:21.126 A:middle a couple of them I hired from here. 00:36:21.396 --> 00:36:22.546 A:middle It was very efficient 00:36:23.016 --> 00:36:26.806 A:middle and I figure I have a different philosophy. 00:36:26.926 --> 00:36:28.446 A:middle It's when you're done with your work you go home. 00:36:29.226 --> 00:36:31.366 A:middle And we started by 9:00 and if you're done 00:36:31.366 --> 00:36:32.886 A:middle by 2:00, go home at 2:00. 00:36:32.886 --> 00:36:34.736 A:middle Done at 3:00, go home at 3:00. 00:36:34.886 --> 00:36:37.086 A:middle So that was encouraging to get the work done 00:36:37.446 --> 00:36:38.166 A:middle and get it done right. 00:36:38.656 --> 00:36:38.996 A:middle >> Right. 00:36:38.996 --> 00:36:41.206 A:middle >> So they were doing bookkeeping, not so much -- 00:36:41.326 --> 00:36:43.656 A:middle we didn't have secretary type stuff. 00:36:44.166 --> 00:36:47.276 A:middle Yeah, whoever's near the phone answers it. 00:36:47.346 --> 00:36:49.006 A:middle It was very [inaudible]. 00:36:49.726 --> 00:36:50.076 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:36:50.206 --> 00:36:51.546 A:middle >> So when you were hiring people, 00:36:51.546 --> 00:36:52.866 A:middle what was it that you're looking for? 00:36:54.776 --> 00:36:57.206 A:middle >> I want somebody who's serious and somebody 00:36:57.206 --> 00:36:58.006 A:middle who I'll get along with. 00:36:58.436 --> 00:36:59.596 A:middle I don't care if they don't know anything. 00:36:59.596 --> 00:37:00.756 A:middle I'll teach them. 00:37:00.756 --> 00:37:02.096 A:middle Okay, but I want somebody who's teachable. 00:37:02.246 --> 00:37:03.946 A:middle And if they're serious and teachable. 00:37:04.296 --> 00:37:05.956 A:middle Now, did I make mistakes? 00:37:06.656 --> 00:37:07.506 A:middle Yeah, a couple. 00:37:07.926 --> 00:37:08.786 A:middle Nothing serious. 00:37:08.786 --> 00:37:10.526 A:middle There was one I had to let go within a week 00:37:11.066 --> 00:37:13.206 A:middle because I really recognized right away it was a mistake. 00:37:13.516 --> 00:37:16.696 A:middle But most of my employees stayed ten years. 00:37:17.316 --> 00:37:19.076 A:middle One was 20 years. 00:37:19.076 --> 00:37:19.506 A:middle >> Wow. 00:37:19.756 --> 00:37:20.776 A:middle >> And still is there. 00:37:21.126 --> 00:37:23.726 A:middle I mean, I'm very loyal to them. 00:37:24.156 --> 00:37:26.976 A:middle I give profit sharing, health insurance, 00:37:27.446 --> 00:37:29.266 A:middle time off whenever they wanted. 00:37:29.266 --> 00:37:32.046 A:middle We didn't have such a thing as sick pay or vacation pay. 00:37:32.206 --> 00:37:33.176 A:middle You want to take it, take it. 00:37:33.176 --> 00:37:33.266 A:middle >> Right. 00:37:33.416 --> 00:37:35.306 A:middle >> Just make sure somebody knows what's going on. 00:37:35.576 --> 00:37:37.406 A:middle So I think that -- but again, that's a different type 00:37:37.406 --> 00:37:40.336 A:middle of philosophy than the very structured, you know, 00:37:40.336 --> 00:37:41.346 A:middle you've got to work these hours. 00:37:41.566 --> 00:37:41.846 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:37:41.846 --> 00:37:42.526 A:middle >> I just don't believe it. 00:37:42.526 --> 00:37:42.916 A:middle >> Right. 00:37:43.196 --> 00:37:45.336 A:middle >> So how do you go about selling a business like that? 00:37:47.166 --> 00:37:48.046 A:middle >> It was not easy. 00:37:48.626 --> 00:37:52.466 A:middle I contacted a broker, a business broker, 00:37:53.116 --> 00:37:55.136 A:middle who sent me potential people. 00:37:55.746 --> 00:38:00.806 A:middle Because it was mine, it was very difficult to make -- 00:38:00.806 --> 00:38:01.536 A:middle I wanted to make sure 00:38:01.536 --> 00:38:04.906 A:middle that everybody was appropriate for the clients. 00:38:05.586 --> 00:38:11.006 A:middle And so I interviewed several people, mostly on the phone. 00:38:11.006 --> 00:38:12.246 A:middle One guy was from Michigan. 00:38:12.246 --> 00:38:13.546 A:middle He wanted something for his kids. 00:38:13.676 --> 00:38:14.586 A:middle That wasn't going to work out. 00:38:15.036 --> 00:38:17.036 A:middle One guy I think was in Monterrey Park 00:38:17.036 --> 00:38:18.116 A:middle and wanted to move it there. 00:38:18.116 --> 00:38:18.856 A:middle That wasn't going to work out. 00:38:18.856 --> 00:38:20.126 A:middle So I talked to a number of them. 00:38:20.996 --> 00:38:25.316 A:middle I did find this one guy who was in his mid-30's I believe, 00:38:25.856 --> 00:38:29.276 A:middle was a tax guy and was interested in this. 00:38:29.546 --> 00:38:30.126 A:middle We talked. 00:38:30.536 --> 00:38:32.456 A:middle It seemed like it would work out, 00:38:33.026 --> 00:38:36.296 A:middle and after a little negotiation, he took it. 00:38:36.426 --> 00:38:38.966 A:middle >> So what are you actually selling? 00:38:38.966 --> 00:38:40.456 A:middle Is it just the client list? 00:38:40.526 --> 00:38:42.216 A:middle >> Yeah, it's the client list, yeah. 00:38:42.216 --> 00:38:44.506 A:middle You're selling the clients, yes. 00:38:44.706 --> 00:38:48.446 A:middle >> So basically that guy then just has a one-time chance 00:38:48.446 --> 00:38:48.706 A:middle with them? 00:38:48.706 --> 00:38:54.846 A:middle >> Well, if he does a good job, it's a continuing relationship. 00:38:55.296 --> 00:38:57.506 A:middle He kept the two employees which are still with him today. 00:38:57.636 --> 00:38:57.766 A:middle >> Wow. 00:38:57.906 --> 00:39:00.576 A:middle >> Which is really -- by the way, again, 00:39:00.576 --> 00:39:02.886 A:middle speaking of employees, that was the only non-negotiable, 00:39:03.156 --> 00:39:03.886 A:middle is that he keeps them 00:39:03.996 --> 00:39:06.306 A:middle and he pays the health insurance and profit sharing. 00:39:06.306 --> 00:39:08.696 A:middle That was not negotiable. 00:39:08.696 --> 00:39:09.836 A:middle >> Taking care of the people. 00:39:09.986 --> 00:39:10.236 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:39:10.236 --> 00:39:10.876 A:middle >> Yeah, right. 00:39:10.876 --> 00:39:12.006 A:middle >> That's what you do in life. 00:39:12.116 --> 00:39:12.306 A:middle >> Right. 00:39:12.306 --> 00:39:13.326 A:middle >> So that was not negotiable. 00:39:13.706 --> 00:39:15.166 A:middle And they're still with him today. 00:39:15.386 --> 00:39:18.296 A:middle They're not very happy, but they're still with him today. 00:39:18.666 --> 00:39:18.956 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:39:18.956 --> 00:39:20.346 A:middle >> I'll be honest. 00:39:20.446 --> 00:39:22.306 A:middle I hope he doesn't listen to this. 00:39:22.306 --> 00:39:23.706 A:middle If he is, hi, Juan. 00:39:27.046 --> 00:39:29.316 A:middle But then if the clients were happy with him, they continued. 00:39:29.316 --> 00:39:30.616 A:middle Many are to this day. 00:39:30.796 --> 00:39:33.686 A:middle And several have left as well, but that's -- 00:39:33.686 --> 00:39:35.106 A:middle one of the things in an accounting firm, 00:39:35.106 --> 00:39:37.996 A:middle in any service firm is, you don't own your clients. 00:39:38.206 --> 00:39:39.436 A:middle You rent them. 00:39:39.616 --> 00:39:39.706 A:middle >> Right. 00:39:39.706 --> 00:39:40.936 A:middle >> People think, "They're my client." 00:39:41.006 --> 00:39:42.476 A:middle No. They could leave tomorrow. 00:39:42.646 --> 00:39:42.946 A:middle >> Right. 00:39:42.946 --> 00:39:44.816 A:middle >> You have to continue that high level of service 00:39:45.136 --> 00:39:45.746 A:middle or they're going to leave. 00:39:46.046 --> 00:39:46.986 A:middle The one that I told you about, 00:39:46.986 --> 00:39:50.496 A:middle the very first client was my client till the end as well. 00:39:50.746 --> 00:39:53.856 A:middle And most of them were there 10, 15, 20 years. 00:39:54.526 --> 00:39:56.246 A:middle I mean, less than that was unusual. 00:39:56.246 --> 00:39:57.736 A:middle And then there were new ones, you now, five, 00:39:57.736 --> 00:39:59.526 A:middle six, four years, whatever. 00:40:00.046 --> 00:40:00.336 A:middle >> Right. 00:40:00.336 --> 00:40:01.626 A:middle >> Once you get a certain reputation -- 00:40:01.846 --> 00:40:05.406 A:middle and our reputation in the nonprofit world was very good. 00:40:05.716 --> 00:40:07.636 A:middle I can't tell how many board meetings I would go to 00:40:07.956 --> 00:40:10.306 A:middle and some would say, "Oh, I've seen your signature," 00:40:10.526 --> 00:40:11.846 A:middle because it had to be on all the letters. 00:40:12.316 --> 00:40:13.306 A:middle And they would know who I was. 00:40:13.726 --> 00:40:14.846 A:middle That's the reputation. 00:40:14.846 --> 00:40:16.236 A:middle It wasn't just charities. 00:40:16.236 --> 00:40:18.076 A:middle It would be like private foundations and things as well. 00:40:18.796 --> 00:40:20.306 A:middle So it was the whole gambit. 00:40:20.576 --> 00:40:23.366 A:middle And people would come to me with technical questions 00:40:23.366 --> 00:40:25.396 A:middle because we just knew what we were doing. 00:40:25.916 --> 00:40:29.046 A:middle >> Right. What was that like for you in that transition then? 00:40:29.046 --> 00:40:32.146 A:middle After selling it, and now you're working full-time teaching, 00:40:32.146 --> 00:40:34.456 A:middle you know, full range of classes. 00:40:34.456 --> 00:40:36.386 A:middle Was it smooth? 00:40:36.386 --> 00:40:37.366 A:middle Was it difficult? 00:40:37.366 --> 00:40:38.176 A:middle Did you love it? 00:40:38.536 --> 00:40:39.516 A:middle Do you have regrets? 00:40:39.796 --> 00:40:41.986 A:middle >> The first year was exhausting. 00:40:42.226 --> 00:40:42.293 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:40:42.636 --> 00:40:45.206 A:middle >> Okay, because I had the two full-time jobs. 00:40:46.046 --> 00:40:48.786 A:middle When I sold the business, it was in August I believe. 00:40:50.386 --> 00:40:52.576 A:middle And my wife said for about three weeks I was just kind 00:40:52.576 --> 00:40:53.666 A:middle of wandering around the house. 00:40:54.736 --> 00:40:56.946 A:middle My kids said, "How are you going to do this? 00:40:56.946 --> 00:40:58.086 A:middle You've done this your whole life?" 00:40:58.366 --> 00:40:58.433 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:40:59.136 --> 00:41:01.526 A:middle >> The honest answer is I couldn't be happier. 00:41:01.886 --> 00:41:02.166 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:41:02.346 --> 00:41:05.326 A:middle >> Okay? When you have your own business -- many people say, 00:41:05.326 --> 00:41:06.086 A:middle "I want my own business." 00:41:06.716 --> 00:41:07.736 A:middle Well, there's a certain pressure, 00:41:07.736 --> 00:41:10.146 A:middle there's a certain stress of having your own business. 00:41:10.276 --> 00:41:12.196 A:middle You don't even realize it. 00:41:12.196 --> 00:41:13.426 A:middle And once I got rid of it, it was like, 00:41:13.426 --> 00:41:15.216 A:middle "Oh my God, that stress is over." 00:41:15.786 --> 00:41:18.046 A:middle So it was very good. 00:41:18.176 --> 00:41:20.696 A:middle Being able to teach has been extremely rewarding. 00:41:21.216 --> 00:41:22.756 A:middle I love dealing with the students. 00:41:22.756 --> 00:41:23.746 A:middle I love teaching them. 00:41:24.356 --> 00:41:25.876 A:middle I love when they succeed. 00:41:26.126 --> 00:41:26.416 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:41:26.656 --> 00:41:29.006 A:middle >> I get pissed off when they don't, okay? 00:41:29.006 --> 00:41:29.726 A:middle It bothers me. 00:41:29.976 --> 00:41:32.856 A:middle Students who don't do well, and I tell them so. 00:41:32.856 --> 00:41:32.996 A:middle >> Right. 00:41:32.996 --> 00:41:35.256 A:middle >> I want everybody -- I don't want them to be at a low level. 00:41:35.256 --> 00:41:36.476 A:middle I want them all to be a high level. 00:41:37.266 --> 00:41:39.056 A:middle And even if they're the low level, it's like, "Come on, 00:41:39.056 --> 00:41:40.246 A:middle you can do better than that." 00:41:40.316 --> 00:41:40.606 A:middle >> Right. 00:41:40.606 --> 00:41:42.136 A:middle >> That's been my frustration teaching, 00:41:42.596 --> 00:41:45.976 A:middle is that I want everybody -- I recognize life is imperfect. 00:41:46.396 --> 00:41:46.556 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:41:46.556 --> 00:41:49.536 A:middle >> I recognize that sometimes things aren't what we want. 00:41:49.986 --> 00:41:51.406 A:middle But I'm trying to do that. 00:41:51.476 --> 00:41:57.266 A:middle So to answer your question, my father about 20 years ago -- 00:41:57.266 --> 00:42:00.176 A:middle maybe 15 years ago -- I talked about doing full-time teaching. 00:42:00.456 --> 00:42:02.466 A:middle He said, "No, you won't like it." 00:42:02.976 --> 00:42:04.536 A:middle And he was wrong. 00:42:04.836 --> 00:42:05.826 A:middle I'm enjoying it tremendously. 00:42:06.366 --> 00:42:08.316 A:middle >> So what is the core advice that you try 00:42:08.316 --> 00:42:11.836 A:middle to give your students in terms of becoming successful? 00:42:13.786 --> 00:42:16.596 A:middle >> Number one, do what you want to do, 00:42:16.596 --> 00:42:19.336 A:middle not somebody else wants you to do. 00:42:19.336 --> 00:42:20.256 A:middle Enjoy what you're doing. 00:42:20.786 --> 00:42:23.566 A:middle If you're not enjoying yourself not only in a career 00:42:23.566 --> 00:42:26.356 A:middle but everything -- you're only going to live once. 00:42:26.746 --> 00:42:28.276 A:middle Enjoy that living once. 00:42:28.536 --> 00:42:31.226 A:middle So you've got to do something that you enjoy, number one. 00:42:31.356 --> 00:42:33.826 A:middle And number two, don't be afraid to try something new. 00:42:34.676 --> 00:42:37.646 A:middle Many people think that they're targeted to do insurance 00:42:37.646 --> 00:42:41.176 A:middle or accounting or art or whatever, or actuarial math. 00:42:41.876 --> 00:42:43.976 A:middle Don't be afraid to try something. 00:42:46.126 --> 00:42:49.176 A:middle >> And then would you recommend being a CPA 00:42:49.176 --> 00:42:51.406 A:middle to new students right now? 00:42:51.596 --> 00:42:54.086 A:middle How does the field look? 00:42:54.736 --> 00:42:56.476 A:middle >> If you've got a knack for accounting, 00:42:56.476 --> 00:42:58.426 A:middle if you like it, yeah, absolutely. 00:42:59.246 --> 00:43:01.106 A:middle Not everybody has a knack for accounting. 00:43:01.106 --> 00:43:02.436 A:middle Not everybody has a knack for math. 00:43:03.196 --> 00:43:04.946 A:middle Not everybody has a knack for history. 00:43:05.406 --> 00:43:08.596 A:middle But if you like it -- and what I do is I identify students 00:43:08.596 --> 00:43:12.616 A:middle who are doing well and then I bring them in and we talk about, 00:43:12.616 --> 00:43:13.746 A:middle do you want to be a CPA? 00:43:13.906 --> 00:43:15.846 A:middle Here's the steps you have to take to get there. 00:43:16.106 --> 00:43:17.226 A:middle It's a very good field. 00:43:17.226 --> 00:43:19.736 A:middle Accounting is one of the few fields 00:43:19.736 --> 00:43:20.706 A:middle that you can always get a job. 00:43:21.416 --> 00:43:21.776 A:middle Always. 00:43:22.026 --> 00:43:22.093 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:43:22.186 --> 00:43:23.506 A:middle >> Okay, there are a lot of fields you can't, 00:43:23.826 --> 00:43:25.056 A:middle but accounting you can always get a job. 00:43:25.286 --> 00:43:26.686 A:middle Will it be a really high-paying job? 00:43:26.916 --> 00:43:27.776 A:middle Maybe, maybe not. 00:43:28.236 --> 00:43:29.376 A:middle But over time it will. 00:43:29.916 --> 00:43:31.436 A:middle And so I think it's a very good field. 00:43:31.766 --> 00:43:34.826 A:middle But some people are afraid of the numbers. 00:43:35.656 --> 00:43:36.616 A:middle "Oh, I hate numbers." 00:43:36.956 --> 00:43:38.316 A:middle Accounting is numbers, but it's not math. 00:43:38.916 --> 00:43:40.056 A:middle A lot of people come into accounting 00:43:40.056 --> 00:43:40.836 A:middle who are really good at math. 00:43:41.316 --> 00:43:42.156 A:middle Accounting's not math. 00:43:42.676 --> 00:43:43.916 A:middle It's a way of thinking. 00:43:44.386 --> 00:43:45.546 A:middle And if you can figure out the way 00:43:45.546 --> 00:43:47.296 A:middle of thinking, then you're okay. 00:43:47.886 --> 00:43:51.056 A:middle So to answer your question, yes, a really good field. 00:43:51.746 --> 00:43:55.346 A:middle It's certainly -- and when I do seminars on careers and stuff, 00:43:55.346 --> 00:43:57.266 A:middle it's always one of the top fields. 00:43:57.646 --> 00:44:01.396 A:middle >> Yeah. I like pushing my students toward CPA 00:44:01.396 --> 00:44:02.696 A:middle because it doesn't cost you money. 00:44:02.816 --> 00:44:06.096 A:middle I mean, the test itself costs you money, but if they go 00:44:06.096 --> 00:44:09.466 A:middle and get an MBA, it doesn't necessarily pay for itself. 00:44:09.466 --> 00:44:12.206 A:middle In fact, a lot of times now an MBA doesn't pay for itself. 00:44:12.206 --> 00:44:17.556 A:middle So I like these certifications, CFA, certified financial -- 00:44:17.556 --> 00:44:20.326 A:middle >> Yeah, if you're doing financial planning, that's good. 00:44:20.326 --> 00:44:23.506 A:middle If you're doing -- if you want to succeed 00:44:23.506 --> 00:44:25.226 A:middle in accounting, CPA is important. 00:44:25.416 --> 00:44:27.176 A:middle Now you can get a master's in accounting 00:44:27.756 --> 00:44:29.616 A:middle and then take the CPA as well. 00:44:29.856 --> 00:44:32.026 A:middle I'm not a big fan of that just because it takes another year. 00:44:32.536 --> 00:44:38.286 A:middle You know, you have to have 150 units to take the CPA test. 00:44:38.286 --> 00:44:39.846 A:middle I'm not sure if you can the CPA test 00:44:39.986 --> 00:44:43.176 A:middle or are qualified to be a CPA. 00:44:43.176 --> 00:44:45.936 A:middle You may be able to take the CPA test after your bachelor's. 00:44:46.006 --> 00:44:47.186 A:middle You need 150 units. 00:44:47.486 --> 00:44:48.336 A:middle Take it in anything. 00:44:48.336 --> 00:44:50.346 A:middle Take it in tennis or softball. 00:44:50.646 --> 00:44:52.046 A:middle It's just 150 units. 00:44:52.046 --> 00:44:53.746 A:middle But they have to be certain classes you take, 00:44:53.996 --> 00:44:56.176 A:middle certain business classes, accounting classes, auditing. 00:44:56.366 --> 00:44:59.296 A:middle >> So what does a master's buy you, a master's in business 00:44:59.296 --> 00:44:59.976 A:middle or a master's in accounting? 00:45:02.326 --> 00:45:03.316 A:middle >> You're asking the wrong person 00:45:03.316 --> 00:45:04.496 A:middle because I don't think it buys anything. 00:45:04.616 --> 00:45:05.856 A:middle >> See, that's what I feel like too. 00:45:05.946 --> 00:45:08.156 A:middle When students ask me, I don't think it buys you anything. 00:45:08.506 --> 00:45:09.696 A:middle >> It costs you another year. 00:45:10.066 --> 00:45:11.576 A:middle Not only a year of school, 00:45:11.666 --> 00:45:13.436 A:middle a year of books, but a year of salary. 00:45:13.646 --> 00:45:14.056 A:middle >> Right. 00:45:14.056 --> 00:45:15.366 A:middle >> So it's very expensive. 00:45:15.576 --> 00:45:17.986 A:middle Now what I do suggest though, if you're working 00:45:17.986 --> 00:45:20.346 A:middle for a large company, let's say Proctor and Gamble, 00:45:20.666 --> 00:45:22.076 A:middle General Motors, Macy's. 00:45:22.446 --> 00:45:25.386 A:middle And if you're management, then you get the MBA 00:45:25.856 --> 00:45:26.706 A:middle because in those type 00:45:26.706 --> 00:45:28.776 A:middle of companies it's important to have an MBA. 00:45:29.186 --> 00:45:31.676 A:middle I can't tell you why, because I think experience is a lot 00:45:31.676 --> 00:45:32.346 A:middle more important. 00:45:32.746 --> 00:45:34.846 A:middle But in those companies an MBA is critical. 00:45:35.096 --> 00:45:37.466 A:middle So in those instances, absolutely. 00:45:37.856 --> 00:45:39.516 A:middle But typically those companies will pay 00:45:39.516 --> 00:45:40.436 A:middle for it, so there you go. 00:45:40.606 --> 00:45:41.846 A:middle >> Right. I usually tell my students, 00:45:41.846 --> 00:45:44.226 A:middle "Don't get an MBA unless you have -- 00:45:44.476 --> 00:45:46.106 A:middle you know exactly what it buys you." 00:45:46.836 --> 00:45:49.236 A:middle Otherwise, just be good at a large corporation 00:45:49.236 --> 00:45:49.946 A:middle and have them pay for you. 00:45:50.416 --> 00:45:51.676 A:middle Almost all of my friends have an MBA 00:45:51.676 --> 00:45:53.056 A:middle and not one of them paid for it. 00:45:53.056 --> 00:45:53.866 A:middle >> Right, exactly. 00:45:54.066 --> 00:45:55.226 A:middle Yeah. And to get an MBA -- 00:45:55.226 --> 00:45:57.256 A:middle to get an MBA is just an excuse not to work. 00:45:57.536 --> 00:45:59.546 A:middle Some people don't want to get in the workforce 00:45:59.916 --> 00:46:01.306 A:middle and so they'll stay in school another year 00:46:01.866 --> 00:46:02.666 A:middle because they're afraid. 00:46:02.856 --> 00:46:05.496 A:middle >> I think the other thing too is that when you get an MBA, 00:46:05.496 --> 00:46:06.916 A:middle usually you quit work. 00:46:07.106 --> 00:46:10.766 A:middle So the other people that you are studying with are unemployed. 00:46:11.206 --> 00:46:12.736 A:middle But if a corporation pays for your MBA, 00:46:12.736 --> 00:46:15.536 A:middle you're in a special program that's set up for you 00:46:15.536 --> 00:46:18.456 A:middle to continue working while you're getting your MBA. 00:46:18.816 --> 00:46:20.866 A:middle And all your contacts are all people 00:46:20.866 --> 00:46:21.846 A:middle who are currently employed. 00:46:21.846 --> 00:46:23.026 A:middle >> Absolutely, and that helps you. 00:46:23.026 --> 00:46:25.566 A:middle >> Right, and then who you meet is far greater 00:46:25.566 --> 00:46:26.556 A:middle than if you quit school. 00:46:26.916 --> 00:46:27.466 A:middle >> Absolutely. 00:46:27.836 --> 00:46:28.456 A:middle Absolutely. 00:46:28.456 --> 00:46:31.726 A:middle One of my friends was working at a bank, got his MBA I think 00:46:31.726 --> 00:46:33.126 A:middle from Pepperdine while he was there. 00:46:33.746 --> 00:46:35.176 A:middle Another friend of mine actually -- 00:46:35.996 --> 00:46:38.346 A:middle one of my best friends, Harvard doctor. 00:46:38.546 --> 00:46:39.816 A:middle Then he went and got his law degree, 00:46:39.816 --> 00:46:40.846 A:middle then he went and got his MBA. 00:46:40.986 --> 00:46:41.926 A:middle He just liked degrees. 00:46:42.096 --> 00:46:42.163 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:46:42.163 --> 00:46:43.306 A:middle >> But this is all while he was working. 00:46:43.476 --> 00:46:43.816 A:middle >> Right. 00:46:44.006 --> 00:46:45.196 A:middle >> So absolutely. 00:46:45.196 --> 00:46:48.636 A:middle But I would suggest most students do not need an MBA 00:46:48.636 --> 00:46:50.136 A:middle unless the job requires it. 00:46:50.326 --> 00:46:52.326 A:middle Like if you want to be a community college teacher, 00:46:52.376 --> 00:46:53.076 A:middle you generally need one. 00:46:53.076 --> 00:46:53.166 A:middle >> Right. 00:46:53.166 --> 00:46:54.286 A:middle >> Now I don't have an MBA. 00:46:54.586 --> 00:46:59.006 A:middle The CPA qualified me so I didn't have to have the MBA. 00:46:59.006 --> 00:46:59.766 A:middle I was the exception. 00:46:59.766 --> 00:47:01.276 A:middle >> Is there a PhD in accounting at all? 00:47:01.346 --> 00:47:01.616 A:middle >> Oh yeah. 00:47:01.966 --> 00:47:02.206 A:middle Oh yeah. 00:47:02.406 --> 00:47:03.506 A:middle >> And what does that entail? 00:47:03.506 --> 00:47:05.166 A:middle What's new research in accounting? 00:47:05.446 --> 00:47:06.306 A:middle >> Who the hell knows? 00:47:06.306 --> 00:47:07.196 A:middle I wish I could tell you. 00:47:08.031 --> 00:47:10.031 A:middle [ Laughter ] 00:47:10.046 --> 00:47:11.256 A:middle No, the honest answer is there is research 00:47:11.256 --> 00:47:12.326 A:middle that can be done in things. 00:47:12.716 --> 00:47:12.966 A:middle >> Okay. 00:47:13.176 --> 00:47:14.126 A:middle >> And they're very few. 00:47:14.126 --> 00:47:17.656 A:middle And one of the problems with the universities is that there's 00:47:17.656 --> 00:47:19.796 A:middle so few PhD's, it's hard to hire somebody. 00:47:20.216 --> 00:47:21.736 A:middle So they're trying to get more PhD's. 00:47:21.736 --> 00:47:22.946 A:middle They're trying to look for diversity 00:47:22.946 --> 00:47:24.776 A:middle in PhD's and stuff like that. 00:47:25.106 --> 00:47:28.706 A:middle But if you can go out -- an accounting major now working 00:47:28.706 --> 00:47:32.256 A:middle for most firms out of college will probably make 00:47:32.256 --> 00:47:34.376 A:middle between $50,000 and $60,000 a year. 00:47:35.076 --> 00:47:37.716 A:middle Why would you want to keep on going to school and give 00:47:37.716 --> 00:47:38.526 A:middle up that kind of money? 00:47:38.526 --> 00:47:39.966 A:middle And that's in today's dollars. 00:47:40.366 --> 00:47:40.646 A:middle >> Right. 00:47:40.646 --> 00:47:41.696 A:middle >> You know, three or four or five years 00:47:41.696 --> 00:47:42.376 A:middle from now, I don't know. 00:47:42.596 --> 00:47:45.156 A:middle So right away there's a disincentive, 00:47:45.156 --> 00:47:47.726 A:middle and then as you go further and further in the accounting field, 00:47:47.956 --> 00:47:48.886 A:middle you make more and more money. 00:47:49.696 --> 00:47:50.996 A:middle Why would you want to go get a PhD 00:47:50.996 --> 00:47:52.886 A:middle so you can come back to school? 00:47:53.376 --> 00:47:54.976 A:middle So it's a very big disincentive. 00:47:54.976 --> 00:47:56.196 A:middle >> Yeah. I mean, it's what? 00:47:56.196 --> 00:47:58.696 A:middle Five years just in terms of pay, 00:47:58.696 --> 00:48:00.576 A:middle looking at over a quarter million dollars. 00:48:00.956 --> 00:48:03.276 A:middle And then you're also five years behind everyone else 00:48:03.276 --> 00:48:06.526 A:middle because everyone else has five years more experience than you. 00:48:06.526 --> 00:48:07.046 A:middle >> Absolutely. 00:48:07.196 --> 00:48:09.556 A:middle >> Yeah. I try to talk my students out of that also 00:48:09.556 --> 00:48:10.536 A:middle because they come over here 00:48:10.536 --> 00:48:13.686 A:middle and they just think more school is always better. 00:48:13.686 --> 00:48:15.366 A:middle And I think when it comes to business, 00:48:15.366 --> 00:48:16.506 A:middle that's not necessarily true. 00:48:16.796 --> 00:48:17.886 A:middle >> Well, it can't hurt. 00:48:18.266 --> 00:48:18.356 A:middle >> Right. 00:48:18.666 --> 00:48:20.196 A:middle >> But if you can do it concurrently, 00:48:20.196 --> 00:48:20.816 A:middle that's a better way. 00:48:20.816 --> 00:48:22.866 A:middle And if you can get somebody else paying, who cares? 00:48:23.206 --> 00:48:23.816 A:middle >> Yeah. Wow. 00:48:26.046 --> 00:48:27.206 A:middle >> See the stuff you're learning, Scott? 00:48:27.206 --> 00:48:28.116 A:middle >> Yeah, all sorts. 00:48:28.116 --> 00:48:29.266 A:middle I'm taking notes over here. 00:48:29.436 --> 00:48:33.716 A:middle I mean, I think what you've shared with us here has 00:48:33.956 --> 00:48:36.526 A:middle so many valuable lessons from your own experience and sort 00:48:36.526 --> 00:48:38.496 A:middle of the path that brought you to where you're at now. 00:48:38.616 --> 00:48:38.996 A:middle >> Thank you. 00:48:39.256 --> 00:48:41.366 A:middle >> Plus, you know, this insight sort of into this other world 00:48:41.366 --> 00:48:44.086 A:middle that people might not understand, like myself and sort 00:48:44.236 --> 00:48:46.626 A:middle of see what it can do for students, 00:48:46.626 --> 00:48:48.236 A:middle what the opportunities are for them out there. 00:48:48.306 --> 00:48:52.166 A:middle If people want more information, if students want to talk more 00:48:52.166 --> 00:48:53.836 A:middle about it, find out more about classes, 00:48:54.376 --> 00:48:56.136 A:middle anything along those lines, what's the best way 00:48:56.226 --> 00:48:57.466 A:middle for someone to get ahold of you? 00:48:57.516 --> 00:48:58.456 A:middle >> Oh absolutely. 00:48:58.456 --> 00:49:01.926 A:middle I speak to students consistently and constantly. 00:49:02.286 --> 00:49:07.966 A:middle Best way is just to email me, levinehj@lavc.edu. 00:49:10.046 --> 00:49:12.876 A:middle I'll be happy to talk to them about accounting or business. 00:49:13.976 --> 00:49:16.416 A:middle Sometimes it works for them, sometimes it doesn't. 00:49:16.486 --> 00:49:18.976 A:middle Part of the discussion is learning 00:49:18.976 --> 00:49:20.626 A:middle about them, what makes them tick. 00:49:21.096 --> 00:49:21.286 A:middle >> Yeah. 00:49:21.286 --> 00:49:22.926 A:middle >> Why they're interested in this. 00:49:23.396 --> 00:49:26.436 A:middle I'll share with you that some students just want to get 00:49:26.436 --> 00:49:27.986 A:middle into business or accounting for the money. 00:49:28.456 --> 00:49:28.986 A:middle Forget it. 00:49:29.726 --> 00:49:31.446 A:middle I had many doctor clients that were just -- 00:49:31.706 --> 00:49:32.986 A:middle they were anesthesiologists. 00:49:33.466 --> 00:49:36.526 A:middle Anesthesiologists are just there for the money typically, okay? 00:49:36.976 --> 00:49:39.676 A:middle They may be doctors but it's a money one. 00:49:39.766 --> 00:49:39.916 A:middle >> Right. 00:49:39.986 --> 00:49:42.206 A:middle >> So if you want to get in for the money, you're probably 00:49:42.206 --> 00:49:44.876 A:middle in the wrong field, at least in accounting, because you have 00:49:44.876 --> 00:49:46.636 A:middle to have a certain mind for it. 00:49:46.736 --> 00:49:46.886 A:middle >> Right. 00:49:46.886 --> 00:49:48.266 A:middle >> Or you're essentially setting yourself 00:49:48.266 --> 00:49:50.206 A:middle up to fail, and that's not good. 00:49:50.586 --> 00:49:52.136 A:middle One of the other things in accounting is you have 00:49:52.136 --> 00:49:55.206 A:middle to have a very high degree of ethics, okay? 00:49:55.206 --> 00:49:57.586 A:middle You have to be objective, you have to be independent, 00:49:58.636 --> 00:50:00.046 A:middle not easily manipulated. 00:50:00.516 --> 00:50:02.736 A:middle Many people are not objective, independent 00:50:02.736 --> 00:50:03.876 A:middle or easily manipulated. 00:50:04.346 --> 00:50:06.056 A:middle That can be problematic as well. 00:50:06.376 --> 00:50:08.836 A:middle Again, it's such a personality-driven thing. 00:50:09.376 --> 00:50:12.206 A:middle And thirdly, and I think most importantly, 00:50:12.516 --> 00:50:14.306 A:middle is you really want to do it. 00:50:14.306 --> 00:50:15.926 A:middle As I suggested before, you have a knack for it. 00:50:16.156 --> 00:50:18.016 A:middle So to answer your question, I'd be happy to speak 00:50:18.016 --> 00:50:21.006 A:middle with any student that's interested in accounting 00:50:21.006 --> 00:50:24.136 A:middle or business or anything in that nature, 00:50:24.876 --> 00:50:26.106 A:middle because this is what I love doing. 00:50:26.396 --> 00:50:27.326 A:middle >> Yeah. Excellent. 00:50:27.396 --> 00:50:30.356 A:middle >> And then let me just add to that, we've never met, 00:50:30.536 --> 00:50:33.086 A:middle but the reason why I wanted to interview you so much is 00:50:33.086 --> 00:50:35.726 A:middle that when I walked into my business calculus class 00:50:35.726 --> 00:50:37.346 A:middle and said, "Who do you guys want me to interview?" 00:50:38.136 --> 00:50:40.086 A:middle Uniformly everyone said, "Professor Levine." 00:50:40.086 --> 00:50:41.296 A:middle >> Love talking to him. 00:50:41.476 --> 00:50:42.476 A:middle >> I pay them to do that. 00:50:42.476 --> 00:50:43.846 A:middle >> Just love talking to him. 00:50:43.846 --> 00:50:44.976 A:middle >> Yeah, now my credit car bill's going up. 00:50:45.041 --> 00:50:47.041 A:middle [ Laughter ] 00:50:47.066 --> 00:50:47.556 A:middle Well that's very kind. 00:50:47.556 --> 00:50:48.466 A:middle Thank you very much. 00:50:48.566 --> 00:50:50.266 A:middle >> Thank you so much for your time today, Howard. 00:50:50.266 --> 00:50:50.846 A:middle Really appreciate it. 00:50:50.886 --> 00:50:51.836 A:middle >> Oh no, it was my pleasure. 00:50:51.836 --> 00:50:53.626 A:middle Thank you guys for having me. 00:50:53.626 --> 00:50:54.286 A:middle >> You've been listening 00:50:54.286 --> 00:50:56.986 A:middle to the Valley College Connection radio show and podcast 00:50:57.106 --> 00:50:59.536 A:middle with Professors Scott Weigand and John Kawai. 00:50:59.686 --> 00:51:02.616 A:middle If you would like to be a guest, recommend a topic or find 00:51:02.616 --> 00:51:07.336 A:middle out more information, please email kvcm@lavc.edu. 00:51:07.516 --> 00:51:11.256 A:middle That's kvcm@lavc.edu. 00:51:11.476 --> 00:51:15.266 A:middle This has been a production of 95.1 KVCM Monarch Radio, 00:51:15.366 --> 00:51:17.986 A:middle the voice of Valley College and the Broadcasting Club. 00:51:18.246 --> 00:51:19.296 A:middle Thank you for listening.